The Joys & Pitfalls of Writing With Foreign Languages

[sordid-humors.livejournal.com]

I come to my writer friends today with some food for thought....

Like many folks here, I read and write in multiple languages—but this is a question more-so of format and style, and so applies to everyone, multi-lingual or not.

I’m finding that when we write from the point of view of an English-speaking narrator, it feels most natural to write out the foreign language as Italicized dialogue. For example: 

“Bre! Blágo!” he bellowed.

Which feels much better than, say:

“Hey! That's lucky!” he bellowed.

The inclusion of the original language as it was heard by the narrator feels more authentic and helps to keep readers firmly in the world of the narrative. The first example is by far the more popular way of going about foreign-language inclusion… until you get into Cyrillic-based languages, Japanese, Chinese, Arabic, or any language straying outside of the Romanized alphabet.

At this point, we as writers have a choice to make: we can either drop into Italicized phonetics (which are good up to a certain point—namely when upside-down letter E’s becomes involved, then it all dissolves into chaos and readers check out) or we can leave the language in its correct written form (sometimes jarring, suddenly seeing Kanji or backwards R’s in the middle of a neat paragraph) and drop down into footnotes for a proper translation. Either one of these options are squiffy, both having their own sets of pro’s and con’s.

Anyone seen creative ways to work with or around these interludes of dialogue? How do you handle this when the situation arises in your own writing?

My second musing—and, for me, the ultimately larger query—is what to do when the narrator themselves is non-English speaking. A good example would be a scene written from Fleur Delacour’s perspective during which she is conversing with her mother or sister in French. It feels natural to fall into the second category of translation shown above, where foreign-language dialogue is translated into English and written out in Italics to suggest the foreign language without actually including it. However, with this method we lose some of the intrigue of the language: some of the romance dies when we lose that connection to the original spoken language.

I’ve approached this writing conundrum in some different ways but have never been satisfied. One method I tried was taking the entire section—dialogue, inner monologue, observations and all—and placing it in Italics, as my narrator, a Frenchman, would not only speak in French but think and process his surroundings in French, too. The full Italics were to suggest his French-language thoughts. It worked… alright, I guess. Like I said, I wasn’t entirely pleased. I suppose to readers it made enough sense to be passable. The scene was ominous, lending the Italics a moody, stuck-in-time feel which was more-or-less appropriate.

We could take my method to the extreme, writing the entire scene in the character’s language of thought—so the above example would become a passage, 200-300 words entirely in French—and then following with the same scene in English translation. This could be cool… or it could be chunky and ultimately turn readership away. Thoughts?

At the end of the day, my musing consists of….

What is the best way to communicate a scene from a non-English-speaking character’s point of view when they are speaking with others in their mother tongue? Is there a way to retain some of the romance of the spoken language without clogging the format and visual flow of your page?

I look forward to chatting about this in the comments! It’s something I’ve been beating my head against for a while now….

Sapiophile, out. 
sordid

Comments

[germankitty]

I'm ESL myself, writing solely in English for both US- and UK-based fandoms, so my native German really doesn't come into it much, if at all. But if I'm writing an ESL character, I might use certain expressions in dialogue that are indicative of ethnicity or a native language other than English. Whether it's a simple "Merde!" for a French person, or have a Latino mention someone's cojones, it rarely goes beyond that.

(I'm not familiar enough with other languages to use specific grammatical variations to English to denote different mother tongues, and wouldn't do it with German anyway because my teaching background rebels way too much at the mere thought. :P)

For an ESL narrator ... I guess I'd do pretty much the same, perhaps reinforce it by using language/culture-specific references -- provided I'm familiar enough with them to use them correctly, that is.

Overall, though, I'd say it very much depends onwho I'm writing -- how much is either the narrator or the protagonist actually immersed in their English-speaking environment? -- and then take it from there. In any case, I'd keep it to fairly recognizable expressions (by context, if nothing else), as I do want my readers to understand (or at least guess more or less accurately) what they're reading without having to have a dictionary close at hand. Anything more elaborate, and the flow does get lost, IMO.

[sordid-humors.livejournal.com]

I'm one of those people, I confess, who breaks up flow with long sentences of foreign dialogue. I try not to do it unless the dialogue itself is important to the story, and I provide footnote translations of the spoken words as needed. I find that sometimes, the fact that a foreign language is being spoken and not always understood by other characters present can be a very important part of a scene.

When I use foreign dialogue, it is either from a language I speak myself or have consulted with native speakers. You're right that it's critical to understand what you're referencing and use the language and culture both correctly and respectfully.

My problem with the occasional dropping of a "Merde!" is that it doesn't say that much about a character... other than that they know how to exclaim "shit" in French. If my characters are speaking a foreign tongue, it has significance--enough that I want my readers to remember that moment or content at a later date. I use foreign language as a punctuation mark, as a way to draw a reader's attention. A contributing factor is that I write a number of Viktor Krum-style characters, folks with a limited English vocabulary, potentially biased view-point and strong cultural background. When my Krum speaks Bulgarian, it's because he's muttering something highly inappropriate to a teammate and doesn't want anyone to know what he's talking about because of the potential media scandal. He's not being cute--he's being devious and secretive while covering his own ass. That says something about the inner workings of my Krum character.

So foreign language can be used to add color to characters, to fill in characterization gaps, or to advance plot. I think the way we present a foreign language in the text says a lot about what the ultimate aim is.

[germankitty]

Well ... I may use a complete phrase or two myself, if the plot occasion warrants it. :) But I usually try to give a translation, however loosely, within the narrative:

- "Boris just told you to perform culturally unacceptable acts of a sexual nature to your closest female relative," Jack translated wryly to Bob.

- "Bob didn't understand exactly what Boris was muttering angrily under his breath, but as an educated guess, it wasn't very complimentary to their host."

- "Bob only knew a few words of (native language), but he certainly had heard that phrase often enough. It meant ...."

That type of thing usually works just as well if a simple "s/he said/cursed/negotiated in (native language)" isn't colorful enough and permits an (IMO) better reading flow than footnotes, end-of-chapter glossary or the hover method. :) But it's always, ALWAYS the character, plot or both which decides what I'll use ...

[olimakiella.livejournal.com]

Usually, if I have an non-English speaking character, I always have the character speak their mother tongue. I then have an Author's Notes at the bottom and translate the lines, or conversation, for those who wish to know what was said.

I would like to know how other's do it. I only use this method because it's the one I find easiest. It is also the method I prefer when reading fics. I have read a few that have the original language in the body of the story and then no translation whatsoever. I then have to copy the dialogue, in its entirety, into a free translation site, just to understand it.

I've thought of the English in italics method before (thinks back to Say Anything (http://www.hpfandom.net/eff/viewstory.php?sid=23715) by megyal). If the reader knows the characters are speaking another language, they might appreciate the knowledge that another language is being spoken without having to skip through a set of phrases they cannot pronounce, let alone understand.

I definitely look forward to the other responses!

[sordid-humors.livejournal.com]

I generally do the same as you, with foreign language in the story's dialogue followed by translations in end notes. I feel like that's a pretty common way to go about it. Especially when you go past simple interjections and go into full sentences, it's only fair to provide translations where appropriate. That's just my opinion, though.

To play Devil's Advocate, there can be moments in a story when providing no translation of a particular phrase is convenient for the author and advances the plot. While this method needs to be used with care, it can be very effective.

I used this method in a scene where Hermione and Viktor Krum are discussing the war: Krum references the Bulgarian version of "You Know Who," which I spelled out in Cyrillic rather than Romanized. I did this because the scene was from Hermione's point of view. Hermione, not speaking a lick of Bulgarian, would find the words absolutely foreign coming from Viktor's lips. I wanted to create that jarring effect for my audience by writing the Cyrillic, knowing most of my readership would not understand the word or have a clue how it was pronounced. I provided no translation. Like Hermione, my readers were supposed to cock their heads and go "huh?". But it was clear the characters were discussing Voldemort and I did not use this method often, making this instance stand out in the reader's memory. I used this moment to advance a sub-plot in which my Hermione develops a cold attitude towards Eastern-European men, starting with this tiny moment with Krum and building outward. If you use it right and sparingly, the jar and clang of foreign language can be very helpful.


I am an audio-synesthete, so for me, I need to at least see the written language so I can try to decipher what it would sound like. Sometimes the cadence a character speaks with or the repetition of certain vowels or consonants can be just as telling as what they're actually saying. Personally, I feel cheated when a character is translated into English without the original language appearing somewhere, even in a footnote. I'm curious and I like to know! :)

[olimakiella.livejournal.com]

I do that too. I had a fic a while back where Draco is reading out some notes from a Doctor, referencing a greek word for the verb 'to obey'. The word actually had pi in it, lol, and I had Remus say the word, while Harry, who couldn't understand the word, said "Eepakooey?" and Remus answers with "Close enough." When I spell out the word as it's said (I just learned from you it's called Cyrillic, so thanks!) readers can follow as if they're characters and not separate from the story.

I understand what you mean by withholding an element of mystery. I do, it's just, as a reader I get frustrated when I don't know what's being said. It piece of dialogue I'd read at the time wasn't part of a mystery. It was a conversation between Draco and Fleur about babies. *shrugs*

If it had been used as a part of a mystery I might have been able to forgive the author, lol.

[germankitty]

Sorry, my inner teacher won't shut up ...

"When I spell out the word as it's said (I just learned from you it's called Cyrillic, so thanks!)"

Erm, Cyrillic is just the name of the script in which some Slavic languages (like Russian and Bulgarian, to name just two) are written -- as opposed to Latin script, which we are using.

So, Victor Krum would appear as Виктор Крум in Cyrillic. :) You're citing Harry pronouncing ΥΠΑΚΟΎΝ/υπακουν phonetically; in Latin script it'd be something like "epakoin" -- which he'd need to see to try pronouncing at all, since Harry most likely wouldn't recognize the Greek script apart from the few letters (ά,β,γ,δ, and of course π) used in fairly elemental Maths/geometry he'd have learnt at school before starting Hogwarts.

*stuffs inner teacher back into box*

[olimakiella.livejournal.com]

Ooh! Thanks for that!

[germankitty]

You're welcome:)

May I have a link to the fic in return, please (if possible)?

[olimakiella.livejournal.com]

Oh, sure! Here you go.

The Poetry of Fragments (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5784778/1/The_Poetry_of_Fragments)

[germankitty]

Thanks!

[olimakiella.livejournal.com]

lol, I love your icon. That's always been my favourite book.

[germankitty]

wicked_visions made a whole bunch of awesome House icons; that one seemed too perfect for Ravenclaw. :)

*kicks LJ for delivering the comment 3 days late*

[olimakiella.livejournal.com]

OMG thank you. I've been seeing these in circulation since around '07. I always wanted one, but didn't know who to credit for them. You are awesome.

[germankitty]

Welcome. :)

IIRC, her icons are free to share -- even the bases. Just give credit. :) (You may have to friend her, though -- and be sure to look at her manips of Awesomeness!)

[sordid-humors.livejournal.com]

I <3 your inner teacher, Kittyness

[germankitty]

LOL.

It so happens that I took a year of Russian at school and two years' worth of Classic Greek at Uni, so I'm reasonably familiar with both scripts (or used to be, anyway; it's been ages ...)

I'm also hopelessly geeky and anal where languages/language in general are/is concerned, so it's no wonder the schoolmarm comes out every now and then. :)

[colakarmon.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think that the inclusion of a foreign tongue really does lend to a sort of added intrigue. My own rules when using interspersing of a language other than English is to just keep it short and too the point. I find that anything longer than two sentences of anything other than English will immediately turn readers off. So it's best to use other languages in short bursts, typically. even when what they're saying can be easily inferred.

My suggestion for larger pieces is either a sentence-by-sentence translation (with the phrase in italics and then the English in parentheses right after it) or a page-to-page comparison, where you would write in on language on one page and then the page next to it would say the exact same thing, only in English. To make that method the most effective, the reader would have to be able to see both pages at once to make quick comparisons and it would help draw them into the experience of the translation. I've not used either of these since I've never done such large chunks of foreign tongue, but this is probably what I would end up doing if I did.

As someone who uses Japanese often, I also understand the tribulation that comes with trying to express a Japanese phrase and simultaneous concept in writing. It's a frustrating thing, particularly for those who didn't grow up with the concept of Kanji and the many meanings and pronunciations,the puns and clever word concoctions that can be made when using them. It's usually just best to stick with the basic Romanization of the language and weave explanation subtly through the plot, if one is really necessary. Footnotes can be off-putting unless the piece itself is constantly full of them.

[sordid-humors.livejournal.com]

I agree.

I really like your page-to-page idea. If only we could do something like that in fandom--alas, this genius is limited to print, my first and forever love.

I applaud your efforts to keep the romance of the original language alive--especially all those little nuances of Kanji and the sheer beauty of the script. It's not enough to simply include the words, the foreign language must be a part of the narrative, weighted with significance, otherwise it's just language for the sake of "coolness". Bah, humbug on that shit.

Pedantry United.
<3

[jakuako.livejournal.com]

Hmm, this may have already been mentioned in comments (I'm way too tired right now to read through all of them and try to make my brain process their meaning xD), but I'll throw it out there anyway, in the hopes that it'll give you yet another perspective:

The way I do it (which is, incidentally, the way I've seen it done in published novels) is writing in to the narrative that the characters are speaking another language. Then I have them simply converse in English. To spice it up and keep it fresh in the readers' memories that they aren't actually speaking English, I may throw in some universally known phrases from the language in which they are speaking, or reiterate in different words in the narrative that they're using another language. Do you catch my drift? Here's a shoddy example:

Because the restaurant was full of ears, they slipped effortlessly into their native language, French dripping like sweet cream off their tongues.

"Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to infiltrate the Weasley family and insert yourself close to Harry Potter."

In an attempt to buy time as she processed this, Secret Agent Delacour doctored her tea.

"Won't you pass the sugar?" she said, and when he had; "Merci."

"Will you accept, Agent?" he demanded, impatient.

"Oui."

Obviously this was crude and ridiculous, but there you are. :D What I like about this method is that it's not cumbersome to read nor unintelligible (unless, for some unfathomable reason, someone doesn't know what "Merci" or "Oui" means). It also gives the reader the option of imagining the characters using a language they don't know, or ignoring it altogether since, for some people, it's difficult to wrap your head around something you don't understand.

Anyway. That's just my two cents. Hope it helps! :)

Edit: Oh, and when it comes to Cyrillic-based languages and the like, I personally would use the Romanized translation and just try to keep it from getting too messy. Obviously, that limits you, but, you know, woes of the trade.