CANON QUESTION

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

I usually post these in my own journal, but I figured HEY, WE HAVE A COMM FOR THAT, so I'm asking here, instead.  I recently had an interesting discussion about GHOSTS (do they show up on the Marauder's Map - answer was YES) and obviously I am writing something set at Hogwarts, which brings me to my next question or request for discussion.

In the books, Harry's classes throughout his school year are pretty fucking sketchy.  The list of Harry's classes throughout SEVEN YEARS seem very slim, so I can only assume there are classes that JKR never bothered to mention.  I would assume there to be standard classes that every British student should have, Y/Y?  Here in the US, we are required to have four years of English, four years of Math, and four years of some sort of Social Studies and (I think) four years of Science.  On top of that we have elective classes like art, drama, business studies, choir, home economics, band, and so forth.  The HP movies have one scene with an obviously very-practiced choir, so I would love to assume Hogwarts has a thriving music division (never mentioned by Harry or his friends due to lack of musical interest or talent), probably a drama department, and most likely a set of core classes common to all British Muggle schools.  We can possibly substitute Arithmancy for mathematics, but Astronomy is the only Science mentioned.  So, my questions are:

1) Are there British "core" classes common to all schools?  If yes, what would those be?  Are there magical equivalents or do you think there would be equivalents at Hogwarts?

2) What other classes (or even elective clubs or groups) do you think Hogwarts would have?

LINK TO HOGWARTS CLASSES - ALL THIRTEEN OF THEM.  THAT'S IT.  SEEMS RATHER LIGHT FOR SEVEN YEARS. 

There have already been hundreds of spells created by fic writers.  I see no reason why we shouldn't create non-canon school programs.  HELP ME, F-LIST!  YOU'RE MY ONLY HOPE!  (Mods, if this sort of thing is disallowed, let me know and I will move it back to my journal.  THANKY!)

Comments

[msrubyroo.livejournal.com]

Okay where I'm from in London
Maths, English, PE, Music, Drama, HIsotry, Geography, DT, RS, Art, a Language (usually French) and Science were taken by primary school kids (4-10 years)

When you reach 11 and go to Senior school science is split into Biology, Physics and Chemistry, you keep all the subjects from Primary school but some schools add another language or two (Usually from German, Spanish and Latin), schools that have the capability do ICT (some start this in primary school) and other specialised subjects like Home Ec. Woodwork etc

When you get to 14 and begin the two years of GCSEs you can more subjects to chose from...English, Maths and Science are the only compulsory subjects I believe, though schools often put aside time in the timetable for PE. Most say you must do a foreign language, but you can get out of it. It used to be that you had to chose between subjects (ie Geography OR History, but you couldn't do both) but they changed that the year I started my GCSEs (2004 I think) so you could chose from any other options provided they could be timetabled. I thing the average number of subjects taken at GCSE is 8 or 9, but some people do like 5 and other do 14 so it's a mix. Some schools have other compulsary subjects that you don't take exams in, but are seen as key to your education ie PSHE, Citizenship, RS etc

When you reach 16 you used to be able to leave school, but there are plans to raise this age to 18 I believe...in the two years of 6th form you take your AS and A levels. These are mostly in subjects you have taken at GCSE, very unlikely to be subjects you have dropped, but may include new ones you've never studied before ie Economics, Politics, Philosophy, Classics, Psychology etc. The average student will take four or five AS levels then drop one or two of these subjects and continue three or four to A level. Some pupils take extra "short course" GCSEs during these years, and some students take more or less than average amount of subjects but not by much.

So yeah, 13 subjects in English schools isn't that much of a stretch, and without "science" taking up three separate subjects ie Biology, Physics and Chemistry it would be possible to just have thirteen to chose from.

Hope that helped! XD

[msrubyroo.livejournal.com]

In terms of subjects needed, it seems that subjects at Hogwarts don't seem to prepare you brilliantly for normal careers XD Nothing to do with being a Healer is really talked about...like you have potions, but if you think of jobs as being equivalent to Muggle jobs (so Healer=Doctor) a Healer wouldn't be making the potions in the same way a Doctor doesn't make the drugs they prescribe. And they don't do biology, chemistry or maths, which are the subjects in England you are advised to take at school to apply for a medical degree afterwards.
Similarly, assuming they have engineers etc (for, I dunno, broom-making, architecture, blah) that don't just hold stuff together by "magic" they would need to know about physics and maths.
Without any mention of university in the books, it implies that there are just a tonne of apprenticeship programmes in both practical and theoretical jobs?
And the Wizarding equivalent of accountants and journalists and businessmen don't seem to have much help at school either.
Oh Dear Hogwarts, the more I think about you the more ridiculous you seem! You just teach people about everyday, and quite random, spells and Charms that will be of no use in the future. Well, that is kind of a lot like Muggle school, but without the being able to write and add up stuff they include!

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

Excellent!

So, Muggleborns and some halfbloods would receive this eduction prior to getting their Hogwarts Letter:
Maths, English, PE, Music, Drama, HIsotry, Geography, DT, RS, Art, a Language (usually French) and Science were taken by primary school kids (4-10 years)

Pure-blood kids would either be homeschooled or have tutors. (Hopefully)
Maths becomes Arithmancy, PE becomes Flying Lessons, History is History of Magic, Science is Herbology and Potions, nearly everything else is covered in Charms...

But I still see a massive hole where there should be English, Art, Drama, Language, and Music. Maybe there were clubs for the Arts and students who were interested in literature, journalism, accounting etc. would find ways to self-study?

[red-cortina.livejournal.com]

I think you're right that the major gap is English (including literature) and the Arts. There doesn't seem to be much canon evidence of British wizards speaking foreign languages - rather embarrassingly, all the foreign wizards seem to speak English instead, so I suppose they could be glossed over if you want them to be. There wasn't much opportunity to study journalism or accounting or other professional things at school in the UK in the 90s - the usual route in would be A-levels and a degree in something else, then on the job training, often leading to a separate professional qualification so in my mind it's fairly unlikely that Hogwarts would offer that sort of thing either. From what you've said it sounds like you had/have far more choice of subjects in the US while for us the idea was to increasingly specialise as we moved through school.

Oh yeah - and....

[red-cortina.livejournal.com]

could I just add that if you think the Hogwarts timetable is sketchy, you should have seen my primary school French lessons. I think that over the space of the six years, we learnt the numbers from 1 to 10 and colours, so it might not be wise to assume that Muggleborns would be able to speak much French. (I was at primary school from 1984 to 1990.)

Re: Oh yeah - and....

[msrubyroo.livejournal.com]

Haa...I learnt French for 10 years and literally remember how to say hello, goodbye, thank you and some bits of vocab...no idea how to form sentences or anything. You fail us English education!

Re: Oh yeah - and....

[red-cortina.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and that's not an unusual experience is it! I've got a degree in German, but I couldn't speak it to any useful level really until I lived in Germany for a year in my third year. How rubbish is that.

[msrubyroo.livejournal.com]

Film-wise we did have the delightful Hogwarts Choir, but I don't remember there being mention officially in the books? Best bet to find out is the stuff in the Fifth book when Umbridge bans extra curricular stuff, there might be mentions of specific extra- curricular clubs then?
I know in Italy, or at least the places where my Italian friends live it's mostly the opposite way round for subjects from the UK, so instead of starting with lots then specialising through senior school as we do, they start with a few subjects and gradually gain them until their last year where they do the most subjects. So it may well just be Hogwarts that's lacking and the rest of the world has plenty of subjects XD
I think you can link subjects together like that...but I do think in terms of maths and science, it isn't as similar as it should be... like Arithmancy seems to be more numerology than algebra, equations etc if that makes sense. So they are a close equivalent but not as close as PE and flying as they both have the same objectives and outcome.

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

Over here they just seem to throw everything at you. In high school it's actually difficult to specialize - even if you're interested in a certain field it can be very difficult to get into popular elective classes.

I guess in the end we're all responsible for our own education. I barely scraped by in my English classes in high school because I spent all my time working on my novel instead of doing the assignments. XD

[red-cortina.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you could definitely argue that we specialise too early, but that's certainly not what I was saying as I merrily dropped subjects I didn't like at 14 and 16!

The thing is, even with all the problems you've pointed out and the seeming lack of university etc, the way Hogwarts works fells very familiar to me as a product of the British education system. I think that's a major part of what drew me in to Harry Potter.

I'm pretty sure I would have failed all my exams if I'd had access to LJ at the time...!

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

YESSSSSS OMG Thank goodness I didn't discover fanfiction until I was out of school or I would have been utterly useless to society. XD XD XD