CANON QUESTION

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

I usually post these in my own journal, but I figured HEY, WE HAVE A COMM FOR THAT, so I'm asking here, instead.  I recently had an interesting discussion about GHOSTS (do they show up on the Marauder's Map - answer was YES) and obviously I am writing something set at Hogwarts, which brings me to my next question or request for discussion.

In the books, Harry's classes throughout his school year are pretty fucking sketchy.  The list of Harry's classes throughout SEVEN YEARS seem very slim, so I can only assume there are classes that JKR never bothered to mention.  I would assume there to be standard classes that every British student should have, Y/Y?  Here in the US, we are required to have four years of English, four years of Math, and four years of some sort of Social Studies and (I think) four years of Science.  On top of that we have elective classes like art, drama, business studies, choir, home economics, band, and so forth.  The HP movies have one scene with an obviously very-practiced choir, so I would love to assume Hogwarts has a thriving music division (never mentioned by Harry or his friends due to lack of musical interest or talent), probably a drama department, and most likely a set of core classes common to all British Muggle schools.  We can possibly substitute Arithmancy for mathematics, but Astronomy is the only Science mentioned.  So, my questions are:

1) Are there British "core" classes common to all schools?  If yes, what would those be?  Are there magical equivalents or do you think there would be equivalents at Hogwarts?

2) What other classes (or even elective clubs or groups) do you think Hogwarts would have?

LINK TO HOGWARTS CLASSES - ALL THIRTEEN OF THEM.  THAT'S IT.  SEEMS RATHER LIGHT FOR SEVEN YEARS. 

There have already been hundreds of spells created by fic writers.  I see no reason why we shouldn't create non-canon school programs.  HELP ME, F-LIST!  YOU'RE MY ONLY HOPE!  (Mods, if this sort of thing is disallowed, let me know and I will move it back to my journal.  THANKY!)

Comments

[ineffably-roma.livejournal.com]

Too early in the morning.....Rom needs coffee....

I believe Harry's schedule is completely filled at Hogwarts. The area I have problems with is what happens if you don't get any OWLS? What do you take?

Did you need a list of all the classes available?

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

*nods*

So I would assume there would be English.

Math would be Arithmancy. Do you think there would be Geometry and more advanced Maths like Algebra, Trig, and their ilk?

For Science, they have Astronomy, Herbology, and Potions. I would think Biology-type classes would be vital for future Healers. Not sure about Physics - that seems to be a Muggle science, but perhaps there would be a Wizarding equivalent...?

Ooooooh, Wizard Woodworking... that would be AWESOME. *makes list*
And yes, definitely language studies!

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

I'll add a list. I was looking at "Harry's School Schedule" on the Lexicon and it just looks really sketchy. Some days seem really full and other days he has two classes mentioned. AND HOW DOES HE LEARN PROPER GRAMMAR WITHOUT AN ENGLISH CLASS?

[ineffably-roma.livejournal.com]

Also from Lexicon:

Quill, Spell-Checking/Spell-Check
A quill that corrects the writer's spelling of words.

■Sold at Weasleys' Wizard Wheezes (HBP6)

■Ron used one for a while during his sixth year, but the charm was wearing off by April. After that, its spelling was worse than he would have managed on his own (HBP21)

LOL

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

*snorfles* They need a Grammaar-checker, too. XD

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

That might be an offshoot of Charms...

YES, I WANT WIZARD STUDIES! XD

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

IT IS SRS BSNS! I'm totally adding MUSIC.

[uniquepov.livejournal.com]

JKR's created a wizarding world that, while set in Britain, doesn't seem to have much in common with their Muggle counterparts (ie, I doubt there are any 'science' classes, as we would consider them) given that canon has most pure-blood wizards completely puzzled by things like autos or electricity... although 'Advanced Muggle Studies' may have included an element of science. In Philosopher's Stone, Hermione explains that logic is not a common concept in the wizarding world - so I think 'arithmatic' is off the table, as well. The UK 'core classes' are not so dissimilar to the US ones, so I think in a lot of areas you're looking at magical equivalents. I've always thought of it more that the list of classes that JKR established was their 'core' curriculum (e.g., minimum 5 years of Potions, Charms, Herbology, DADA, Transfiguration, Care of Magical Creatures, etc. until OWLs) and that anything additional would have been considered elective (along with the already-established electives like Muggle Studies, Ancient Runes, Divination, Arithmancy, etc.).

Probably best to move backwards from some of the careers JKR established? Internation relations/cooperation? Must have been a language division, then, and 'World History of Magic'? Nicholas Flamel was an alchemist, so they must have had Alchemy and some sort of Philosophy track. Plenty of authors and journalists, so writing, journalism, literature, poetry, classics, etc, are all possibilities as well. Some sort of magical law classes, the way the US has classes on the Constitution, for those wanting to go into Magical Law Enforcement? All those portraits and statues didn't create themselves, so there were most likely art classes offered, as well as music for the choir (as you already noted).

Personally, I have a kink for imagining McGonagall teaching classes on Shakespeare and Marlowe, Bronte and Tennyson, Chaucer and Byron...

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

That opens up a whole other can of worms, but I would almost expect Theology to be a Uni-level class, unless the school itself was of a religious nature.

[inamac.livejournal.com]

Presumably, as with O-Levels in England, if you don't pass any OWLS you either stay on and re-take them the next term/year, or leave school (no-one seemed particularly bothered by the Twins leaving mid-NEWTS; in fact they may even have been studying for re-takes rather than NEWTS.)

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

I know, I wish she would have expanded on the classes a bit, instead of keeping Harry in the same old classes year after year. How boring would be SEVEN YEARS of History of Magic when he could have taken something else? I love your idea of Philosophy and with the proliferation of Wizarding books mentioned, I can only assume some sort of core English/Literature classes.

HAHA Yes, I think McGonagall would be awesome at that!

[inamac.livejournal.com]

Also they do have History of Magic, and I'd expect some sort of practical Geography of Wizarding Britain in order to manage broomstick navigation and Apparition.

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

I would assume that classes like Composition would be required instead of English or Literature. Potions would be the science class, I think. He does take History of Magic, so that leads me to believe that there are other core classes like basic magical math (Arithmancy?) and composition, but they may not be continued through every year, and they may only require an ability to do certain calculations for formulas and spell-creation (maybe?) and writing competency enough to write essays. Or, perhaps, those things are included in their vocational topics. Snape may've gone over some arithmetic functions and Flitwick or McGonagall may've covered basic grammar. Spelling of spell names is probably covered by 'points off for misspelling Levicorpus, which was written in your book'.

My guesses for other classes: Theology (the magical equivalent); domestic spellwork (Home ec.); spell-creation; music; art; dance; economics or some other business class since a lot of wizards are business-owners; accounting and financial basics; public speaking/communications; magical biology (dissecting hippogryph eyes, fun!); and foreign languages (Latin for spell-creation? French, German, Russian, Italian, Welsh, Gaelic, Mermish, Gobbledygook [sic?]).

Clubs: Quodpot; Chess; art; theatre; creative writing; sartorial/clothing making and sewing; abraxian-back riding

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

Ohhhh, another good point! Magical Geography and Cartography?

I LIKE IT.

[helenadax.livejournal.com]

I don't think they have normal subjects. They learn Maths in Arithmancy and Astronomy, some Chemistry in Potions, some Biology in Transformations and some Phsysics in Astronomy. Maybe they learn basic Latin in Ancient Runes and Art in History of the Magic. And I agree they should study English, but that's a muggle point of view; maybe they think if you're interested in Literature and things like that you can study them on your own.

[jtsbbsps-dk.livejournal.com]

Now, I know I'm not from the UK, but 13 different classes doesn't seem light for 7 years imo.
In DK we have one school for the 6/7 year olds to the around 16 year olds and then most people switch to another school for the last 3 years and during those 10 years of school we have
3 different languages
math
bio/chem and physics (some schools decide to just same it under the same class, but that's rare)
history
social studies/politic-ish class
music/art/sewing/wood work/cooking (some years, not all - you can generally choose one or the other at some point and some schools don't have all the necessary facilities)
P.E.

So we'd have, like, perhaps 12 different classes during those 10 years. I wouldn't consider that 'light'.

And speaking of 'core' classes. I seriously doubt they teach grammar, math or spelling at Hogwarts. It always seemed to me that the students were expected to be home schooled in these things before coming to Hogwarts so they'd be able to write assignments as 11 year olds...

As for clubs and groups. The Gobstone or exploding snap club, a wizard's chess club, perhaps?

[ineffably-roma.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

So if you leave school, does that mean you dropped out or that you finished what was required and are just moving on Sorry just trying to relate it in my own head to our High Schools in US.

[inamac.livejournal.com]

There definitely is Magical Cartography - whence else the Marauders Map?

I bet Lupin aced those classes.

[sara-holmes.livejournal.com]

I always figured that if a wizard had an encounter with a Muggle out in the wide world in a pub or something, they'd seem incredibly stupid. Coz obviously they couldn't wow a non-magical type with their incredible charms skillz, but would only have knowledge in English and maths and whatnot up to primary school level.

And I also thought Harry's schedule would look like my sixth form one - I only had five subjects but we had double lessons for them (two hours twenty minutes) in the afternoons so it worked out I only had about an afternoon and a bit free. They mention 'double potions' and whatnot in the books so I just imagined it like that.

Hmm....tis a tricky one.

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

It makes my brain hurt just thinking of how difficult the magic must have been to create that map. PLUS THEY WERE ANIMAGI. *amazing boys were amazing*

[isinuyasha.livejournal.com]

Physics...that's a difficult thought when talking about the HP-verse, I think...

On the one hand they have all the rules and formulas we have but on the other they don't need them...
I mean, they would need to know where the center of gravity in a building is so that it doesn't fall over but looking at the Weasley's house they can avoid all that via magic...
So I guess it would be something covered in Muggle Studies...like 'Look at those cute rules the muggles have to make life easier...we don't need them because we have magic'?
They don't need knowledge of electricty or similar thinks...maybe physical optics but I dunno...
It's weird.

Man, what a difficult question^^

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to relate it to my four years of high school, during which I took:

English
Drama
Art
American History
Geography
Earth Science
Physics
Biology
Typing
Algebra
Geometry
Journalism

That's twelve different classes in four years. Additionally, my friends had:
Accounting
Language Courses
Woodworking
PE
Music (choir and band)
Home Economics
Shop (Mechanics)
And higher level math and science classes.

So that's at least 20 "available" classes in only four years, more when you consider each language as a separate class, band and choir as separate classes, and so on. I'm sure I missed some, also.

And that was at my public school in the middle of nowhere! Some high schools offer AVIATION.

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can see the thirteen classes for a single year, but spread out over seven years it seems pretty redundant, unless they throw other subjects into the mix. Transfiguration/Philosphy, for example. Charms/Latin. IDEK.

[inamac.livejournal.com]

This is something that is a MAJOR difference between the UK and US. You can't 'drop out of school' in the UK. You are required to attend to the age of 16 (the age limit has been rising over the years - pre-War it was 14). If you fail to attend (even if you don't pay any attention in lessons and don't take the exams), then you are truanting and you (and your parents) can end up in court).

After the age of 16 you can leave school with no penalty. It's just called 'leaving' - no concept of dropping out, or (if you have taken the exams, of 'graduating'). In fact, for most people (and in the Potter books) you don't even know the results of your exams until after you've 'left' - they arrive during the school holidays.

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

OMG YES, I would expect Latin to be VITAL.