2 quick questions

[naturegirlrocks.livejournal.com]

After reading and writing slash for little over two years now (yes, I guess I'm still a little of a n00b) there are two things that has caught my curiosity. I don't  know if it concerns H/D writing directly, but it I think it would really help me to understand the theme a little more. 

One: Do you think there are more bisexual men who are 'tops" than 'bottoms'? 
- I think that there are more tops because there is less threat to 'their manhood' (Y/N)
(I have a bunny about of exploring this question in a fic, so any help would be nice.)

Two: Why are there so many lesbian slash (man on man) writers? 
- I am more attracted by men than by women (about 80/20) so I can't really relate. I have asked lesbian writers this question before and they told me that 'it's just hot'. Maybe I'm just a little ignorant but why does women who don't find men desirable as sex partners write so darn good slash?

Or is it just because it is H/D and that it is meant to be<3? 

Comments

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

Sex is so complicated and we don't always understand why something turns us on. The mystery is part of the fun. :)

Personally, for me it's as much about identification as objectification. For example, I may not find, Bellatrix hot as an object. But I find it very hot to imagine myself as Bellatrix. And sometimes I find it enjoyable to identify with the male in a pairing as he objectifies another male. Of course I am only speaking for myself.

[naturegirlrocks.livejournal.com]

I agree that it's different form person to person.
LOL, I have learned more about sex since I joined the HP-fandom than I ever knew before.

[writcraft]

Hello! I read a really interesting article by a gay man writing about how to write gay sex to help slashers out and he had some interesting thoughts on the top/bottom issue. I will try to find the link and come back in a bit and post it here. I also do a lot of academic study on slash as well as reading and writing it myself and I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that there is no specific box we can put slash in (there are arguments for example that it is feminist in objectifying men as opposed to women, it is a queer practice which explores themes of gender confusion (gender fluidity), homosocial desire and so on and there are some arguments around the androgyny of romance in slash exploring writing men as 'feminine' which you might find interesting). However, particularly with HP there is so much breadth and depth to the writing in the fandom, such a broad exploration of different emotions, kinks and so on, it is impossible to compartmentalise into a neat political/social box - as melusinahp says, it is complicated by very individual desires. I am happy to PM you some stuff which explores the kinds of issues raised on an academic level if you like xx

[naturegirlrocks.livejournal.com]

That sounds very interesting. I have a friend that is studying gender-knowledge in uni now. She would like to see that as well. Thank you.

[naturegirlrocks.livejournal.com]

I agree that the image of bi men bottoming is a little hotter ;)
Though my favorite "bi-scenario" in yaoi is when a young divorced/widowed father falls in love with a gay man and tops o///o

I began writing slash because it's something I never can be apart of myself. Like I can be a man or a woman or even two men, but I can never experience a male/male relationship. Maybe it's the mystery that beckons?

[lokifan]

1. I don't know that bisexual men (obviously v wide group) are that worried about their 'manhood' TM. I mean, if you're a dude who's out as bi, you've chosen to open yourself to challenges to your masculinity. I'm bi myself and I don't worry about what my sexual desires reflect about my femininity :)

2. *shrugs* I think 'it's just hot' is as much an answer as anyone can give, a lot of the time. I mean, I don't think identification/objectification are as simple as they're often made out to be.

[lokifan]

That's kind of what I mean, though: men are less likely to come out as bi and therefore the ones who do aren't likely to be as worried about masculinity.

[inamac.livejournal.com]

The limited number of men I know of who've 'come out as bi' started off assuming that they were gay - so the 'male het stereotype' clearly didn't apply in their case ("I thought I was gay, and then I met this really fantastic woman, and now we're married...")

I have no idea whether they topped, bottomed or switched in their gay relationships - or whether they dominate or submit (or not) to their female partners.

This is one of those questions where there are as many answers as there are people.

I assume you've seen the late and great Minotaur (http://squidge.org/~minotaur/classic/intro.html)' site?

[altri-uccelli.livejournal.com]

Getting into m/m slash romance has made me realize how incredibly complicated questions of desire and of objectification/identification are. In my years (from early teens on) reading a fuckton of het romance, I was attracted to things that turned *me* on; I think it was actually a really valuable way to explore my desires and sexuality before I was ready to do so with another person.

With slash, which is something I got into in my 40s, I am turned on--as a reader--by many things that I absolutely do not find erotic for myself. Spanking, for example; with the right dynamic between two men (and that's very specific for me), I find it immensely erotic and moving. I would experience it myself as frightening, alienating, and completely unsexual, however.

This isn't an attempt to answer your question, just to say that I find it very interesting, and I really like hearing other people's experiences because as Mel said, sex is complicated and that's part of the fun. :)

[vanessawolfie.livejournal.com]

I don't know any better than I'm just straight, and I write het, slash and femmeslash. I don't think it really matters what you feel like.

It's just like when you write angst or fluff. Even if you haven't experienced those feelings, you can still imagine them and write them in fics. I've written depression like WOW.. but I don't feel like that. I think that might be one logic to it. It's just something we write.

[deirdre-aithne.livejournal.com]

From what little experience I have with bisexual guys (Two if you count my husband's 'curiosity', as he would put it), they seem to do both pretty equally. Both of the ones I know really enjoyed bottoming, but hubby also liked to top (where the other guy wasn't very interested in topping with a guy), so it's kind of 50/50 from my experience, lol.

For the second question, I have no idea, lol.

[themaohour.livejournal.com]

I don't really know anything about that first one. But on the second one, I also don't know anything, except that I'm a lesbian slash writer who has spent a lot of time talking to other lesbian slash writers about why we write slash.

The consensus appears to be: because it's hot.

So that wasn't very helpful.

[khalulu]

I'm bisexual, but when I first heard of and saw slash (there was an essay about it by Joanna Russ, a lesbian-feminist sci fi writer, back in the 1980's, and then I saw fanzines of Kirk/Spock stories) I identified as lesbian, and my question was "Why are all these straight women writing about gay men?" Obviously there are a lot of different answers. Sexuality is complicated, the creative process is complicated, taste in reading and writing is complicated, etc. Myself, I like peer relationships and relatively androgynous people, and I grew up at a time when there was little equality in male/female relations, and I enjoy, in fics, not having to deal with that particular historical baggage. It's not the anatomy that attracts me to slash, but I am particularly moved by men in love I think in part because tenderness between men has been so taboo, and I admire people being brave on behalf of their identities and loves. I would read more female/female slash if I knew where to look for stories about dykey women.

[kinky-kneazle.livejournal.com]

This article (http://www.salon.com/2011/10/14/i_love_gay_male_porn/?source=newsletter) was on Salon today. I only skimmed it, but it may have some good ideas. I say may because it quoted those two idiots Ogi Ogas and his buddy, so it's also possible that it's completely useless.

As for the bisexual query, I think everyone's sexuality is different, and people top and/or bottom for varying reasons and it can't be generalised. My ex bottomed exclusively when he was younger, went through a phase of doing both, then topped exclusively when he was older. Considering how often he camped it up, no matter who was around, I don't think he had any concerns about his 'manhood'. From discussions with him and others, I think people who exclusively top or bottom is far more rare than we make it out to be in fandom.

I think if you want to write a story about the idea, then write it. It doesn't need to be a phenomenon among many bi men for it to be an interesting story - even if it were just one man with that sort of hang up, it would be an interesting story.