Point of View and Epithets -- are they our friends or do we hate them?

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

I was trying to explain to someone why her use of epithets wasn't working for me and decided to clarify my thoughts to myself and write them out in a post. I'd love to hear your thoughts, agreements, disagreements, etc.




Misuse of epithets will weaken your writing. Not everyone may notice or agree (just as not everyone may notice or agree that typos, misspellings and poor grammar weaken your writing), but it really, honestly will. Misused epithets corrupt your character's POV and are distracting to many readers.

1. What is an epithet?

According to the dictionary

"Any word or phrase applied to a person or thing to describe an actual or attributed quality: “Richard the Lion-Hearted” is an epithet of Richard I.

A characterizing word or phrase firmly associated with a person or thing and often used in place of an actual name, title, or the like, as “man's best friend” for “dog.”"

A word, phrase, or expression used invectively as a term of abuse or contempt, to express hostility." (For example: the ferret for Draco, speccy git for Harry, the Chosen One for Harry.)

The most common misuse of an epithet I see in H/D fandom is when a writer refers to Draco, through Harry's POV, as 'the blond'. Other examples: 'the hot, raven-haired seeker' instead of Harry, 'the large nosed potions Master' instead of Snape, 'the soon to be ex-girlfriend' instead of Ginny, 'the heavily-muscled, tattooed, panty-wearing former porn star' instead of (insert name here).


2. What is the proper way to use an epithet?

When the POV character is unsure of the identity of another character.

For example: Harry sees a blond man in the distance, but he can't make out his identity. He doesn't know it's Draco.

The blond man lifted two fingers and shouted, "Piss off."

"Ah," Harry thought. "It must be Malfoy."

In that instance, the use of "the blond" does not weaken the writing or corrupt Harry's POV because Harry is initially thinking of Draco as 'the blond' and not as 'Draco' or 'Malfoy'. Once he knows it's Draco, he will no longer refer to him as 'the blond' in his head.

When a character is doing something that makes the epithet relevant to the scene. For example: If Kingsley is making a speech addressing the wizarding world, it makes sense to refer to him as "the Minister for Magic". If he is buying groceries in Diagon Alley, it does not.

Another example of a situation in which it's appropriate to use an epithet is when the POV character referes endearingly, ironically, or scathingly to another character by an epithet. For example: Potter was on the broom again. Draco couldn't stand seeing the speccy git another minute in the air."


3. How does one misuse an epithet?

By having your POV character include it in his or her internal monologue/narration in a way that doesn't make sense for their relationship or that provides information that isn't relevant to the action. For example, if Harry and Draco have been in a loving relationship for many years, Harry is not going to think of Draco as "the man" or "the blond" or "the clever potioneer" (although he may think of him as 'the obnoxious prat' or 'the spoiled pureblood in dire need of a good, hard spanking' now and then).

Or: "Dammit, Potter!" Draco slammed his fist down on Potter's desk. "Kneazles are dropping dead left and right, and Magical Law Enforcement is doing nothing to stop it."

The treacle tart fan yawned and stretched his arms above his head. "Fuck em'. They're just Kneazles."

Draco's face crumpled. "I knew you didn't love me." He grabbed the boy who was crap at potions when they were in school's ink well and threw it in his face.

"You're mad," the brunet man said. "I love you with the passion of the exhalations of eight million Hungarian Horntails. Kneazles be damned. I'm doing you here and now on the desk, just to prove my love once and for all."

All their clothes fell off to save time, and Draco gazed up at Harry, every cell in his body pulsing with love. The man grabbed an industrial sized tube of lube. "Strawberry," he said. "Your favourite kind."

Basically, epithets are an outside view intruding into the POV passage, distancing the reader from the POV character.


4. But every other word in my fic is 'Harry' and/or 'Draco' and it's extremely irritating! What should I do?

a) Don't worry about it. It will be fine.

b) Restructure your sentences so you don't need to use so many proper nouns.

For example: Harry lifted his leg to allow Draco more room. Harry's thigh began to ache, but as soon as Draco penetrated him fiercely with Draco's throbbing man meat, Harry's discomfort became insignificant.

Could become something like: Harry lifted his leg to make more room. His thigh began to ache, but the discomfort became insignificant once Draco thrust into him with his pulsating flesh spear. He instantly exploded with the pleasure of a million, glistening double rainbows. It was so intense.

Other helpful discussions of epithet use:

Fandom Grammar -- Writing Tips: Epithets -- I love this article. It's very clear and full of many examples.

Epithets: Fandom's Designated Hitters

Point of View: Eye of the Beholder -- An article about POV in general, which includes discussion of epithets

Wise words from Rickey_a

Thanks to vaysh11 for her suggestions and additions. ♥

Comments

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

The bad bit...?

lol. ♥

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

In the years to come, that will be remembered as my contribution to fandom. "Throbbing man meat" *nods*

[vaysh]

There are worse things to go down for in the history books. ;)

[deirdre-aithne.livejournal.com]

This is actually something I just had to deal with for a fest. And after a whole lot of very angry spazzing over not being able to use 'the blond' at all, I was about ready to kick something in frustration.

Using something like 'the blond' in reference to Draco or 'the brunet' in reference to Harry a lot, I could understand being a problem and throwing someone out of a fic pretty easily. I'm sure it would me. But seeing 'Harry' and 'Draco' used in every bloody line is equally annoying to me.

I think that sort of thing still has a place, even when Harry & Draco are in a long established relationship or just bumping into each other. Its just all about the context of what you're saying. Some of the examples above ('the treacle tart fan' & 'the boy who was crap at potions when they were in school') were more along the lines of "How in the hell is this a relevant reference" than just being a misuse of an epithet. Where it says 'the brunet' read fine to me, though; and 'the man', although I think there should have been an 'other' in there to make it a bit more fitting, worked as well. Its when they get completely outlandish and irrelivant to what's going on in the situation that it becomes a bit of a throw, I think. Or when they're used more than the character's names.

I think this sort of thing needs a balance. Use the character's names, but referring to them as 'the blond/brunet' or some other epithet that's relevant to what they're discussing/doing every once in a while is fine.

I'm happily married to my husband, and even my internal monologue for him often includes the phrase 'the/that man', so of course I imagine the characters in fic would do it as well. I don't think that's a turn-off of the experience when its used sparingly.

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

My opinion -- saying "it's okay to misuse epithets improperly now and then as long as you don't do it too often" is to me the same as saying "it's okay to misspell words now and then as long as you don't do it too often".

If you've misused an epithet, it explodes POV even if you only do it once in the whole fic. I can see a situation in which Draco being blond would be relevant, but it would have to be a situation in a hair dressers. If they're in bed it's never going to be correct unless they are discussing hair colour. :\

'The brunet' wasn't relevant in that instance, because Draco would never think of Harry as 'the brunet' unless he'd never met him before, was unaware of his identity, or was differentiating between him and another person with a different hair colour.

Regarding 'the man'. I can tell you when I read it, it destroys my inner visual narrative and replaces my image of Draco with an image of a generic 'man'. Like I said, there are people for whom that won't be a problem, but generally speaking epithets that break POV aren't considered good writing.

I do think of my own husband as 'the man' now and then, but only when I'm irritated with him. ;)

[eanelinea77.livejournal.com]

I agree with you and with deirdre. If there are too many Harrys and Dracos in the story I get annoyed because I already know who Harry and Draco are and what they look like. Using some epithets shouldn't be an issue if it's sparingly and makes sense. I prefer dark-haired for Harry because he's described as having black hair, but if I see a million Harrys and Dracos that's worse to me then the blond, brunet, redhead, etc.

But I see this as more of a to each their own.

I do agree though, depends on the circumstance. Harry won't call Draco the blond when he's thinking about him. So epithets should only be used when appropriate.

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

"So epithets should only be used when appropriate."

This. They can be used now and then, but only when appropriate. :)

[potteresque_ire]

*Huggles the Lovely Flister Who Has a Default Mermaid Icon but didn't use it today*

The Kneazle story is the most romantic story I've read for a long time *wipes off tears*.


I love you with the passion of the exhalations of eight million Hungarian Horntails.
This will be in my wedding vow. :D.

I think a lot of epithets in H/D are there because of the he vs he problem, which is a difficult one to tackle (for me, at least!). Whether it is friend or foe often depends on how good the writer is in clarifying who's who without them—there are stories in which I really get lost on the who's who and so I can't really get into the character's POV as is anyway, and in that case, some epithets don't hurt. :)

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

lol. :D I always strive to weave beauty into my wordialities.

I agree that's why people use epithets. But the thing I'm trying unsuccessfully to say is that they aren't just irritating when misused, they are actually wrong. When used in the situations I described above, they simply don't make sense. So using them improperly even a little bit equals poor writing. Check out the fandom_grammar post. I think she explains it a lot better than I did.

A strong writer can overcome the he vs he problem with clever sentence structure. It's tricky and takes work, but writing is hard, you know?

♥

[potteresque_ire]

It's tricky and takes work, but writing is hard, you know?
*Nods and sobs a little, snot and all*.

And you explain it very well! I totally understand what you mean. It's just that sometimes I get sloppy with my fandom writing and reading habits *hangs head with shame* <3.

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

*rests my head on your shoulder and weeps along with you. Gets your clothes all damp.*

Heh. I get sloppy with my writing all the time. Bloody adverbs and saidisms.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I have a lot of feelings on epithets, none of them particularly positive or popular. If I trip over a few so be it, but if it becomes excessive, it's a deal breaker for me along with *cum*. The Slytherin. The Gryffindor. The blond. The brunet. The other man's cock. Seriously, if you're writing about Harry and Draco, you need to stick with their names. The only time man for me is acceptable is when we don't know who a character is yet. Ugh, epithets are teeth gnashing.

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

You have a lot of feelings!

They are usually an automatic back click for me. I have to already be pretty involved in someone's fic not to stop reading if 'the Slytherin' shows up somewhere it doesn't belong.

[frayach.livejournal.com]

I second this completely. "The brunet" particularly bugs me because Harry has black hair, damn it!

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

THIS. SO MUCH.

At least they don't refer to Harry as a ginger :P

[vaysh]

That! Thin face, knobbly knees, black hair, bright green eyes. That is how Harry looks.

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

Ah ha ha! (I was going to make this comment.)

You're forgetting the magical laser eye surgery, stylish hair cut, and daily visits to the tanning salon. ;)

[vaysh]

*lol* Fact remains: no dye-job on the hair. :P

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

Yes! That's what I was trying to say. It's not a stylistic choice, it's maintaining your writing's internal logic.

And you did, only much more clearly and concisely. ♥

[germankitty]

Thanks for this, especially the examples. :)

Personally, I don't mind the occasional epithet, when it's used from the "omniscient narrator"'s POV. Emphasis very much on occasional, though!

I guess I'm lucky; my slash OTP in the fandom I do/did my main writing in consists of two guys who BOTH have brown hair, brown eyes and are martial artists. In my current WIP, I even have them both be teachers. The only epithets I could possibly use are "the taller guy" (and a couple of inches at best are hardly worth mentioning), or "the lighter-colored brunet" (because one guy veers more to dark brown hair/eyes as opposed to the other's medium brown).

As that's WAY too much effort to type, I learned quickly to stay away from epithets altogether. :)

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

Hee. I hope they were helpful rather than distracting.

I think there are different rules for epithets when a writer uses omniscient narrator. The things I mentioned apply to 3rd person, single POV. Omniscient narrator is a whole different kettle of fish.

I think once you ban yourself from using epithets you get used to it and it becomes easier to avoid them.

[germankitty]

My boys are ALWAYS distracting. :) (See icon)

"I think once you ban yourself from using epithets you get used to it and it becomes easier to avoid them.2

Oh, indubitably! (Yay! I've always wanted to use that word at least once!)

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

You'll have to pm me, because I was sure that none of the big names used them. I'm very curious. :)

There are a few writers whose writing I otherwise love so much that I'll forgive the occasional 'blond'. Most of the time, however, I find it's a good way to weed out fics that are going to be poorly written in other ways.

I am absolutely certain I used them in my early fics. I didn't know anything about POV when I first started writing. I had to get told off by a beta and then look into it.

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

Lol. Well, if it was someone who didn't know her than 'curvy barmaid' might have been appropriate. :D

[celestlyn.livejournal.com]

While I can't say that I've never used or will never use an epithet, I can say that they really don't tend to annoy me like they do some people. I'm as tired as everyone of seeing 'the blonde', 'ferret-face' and 'greasy-git', but I sure wouldn't hit the back button and refuse to read an otherwise well-written fic because of it. It doesn't throw me out of the flow of a story or disrupt the pov to me. However, I will certainly take the time to see that I avoid the use of these annoying references in the future. Can't say I will manage it perfectly, but I will try.

That said, there are a couple of over-used phrases that annoy the hell out of me to the point where they do toss me out of the flow of a story. 'He let out a breath he didn't know he was holding' and 'not for the first time' are in just about every fic I read and their gross over-use makes me crazy. So we all have our peeves.

[bryoneybrynn.livejournal.com]

Everything about this makes me smile.

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

*loves and loves some more*

[misbehavingmom.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for posting!! My first beta was a stickler about these types of things...I spent so much time correcting. The earlier posts are correct; the whole same pronoun issue is very much to blame, as well as the popular fanfic authors who use epithets throughout their stories. It's easy to slip into those habits and patterns...I still catch myself doing it. Writing our men properly takes longer, but the end result is always worth it.

♥

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

I learned from my early betas too. :)

Are there a lot of popular writers who misuse epithets? I'm surprised or maybe they are writers I just haven't come across.

"Writing our men properly takes longer, but the end result is always worth it." -- So true.

♥

[scarlettlilly.livejournal.com]

Good post! I will admit to using "blond" and "brunet" just as often as you accused, but only because, like you said, I don't want all my sentences to include "Harry this" and "Draco this". This was a helpful post. I've been trying to vary my sentences a bit more, but understanding some of the concepts behind it certainly helps.

Hooray for learning!

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

Yay! I'm really glad this was helpful. ♥

And in my experience, once you get hard core and forbid yourself from using epithets it eventually becomes second nature. :D

[kinky-kneazle.livejournal.com]

I think I learned the most from reading - as they started to annoy me in fics I started to pay a lot of attention to my writing. There's a popular story from early fandom that used them excessively. I re-read it last week and every epithet threw me out, no matter how much I loved the ideas of the story.

'the heavily-muscled, tattooed, panty-wearing former porn star' instead of (insert name here) Remus. Or maybe Blaise.

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

*nods* It's funny though. Sometimes something doesn't bother me until it's pointed out by someone else, and then it drives me crazy. It tends to bother me more if it's something I used to do myself. :)


... Or Pansy?

[kinky-kneazle.livejournal.com]

I can't picture Pansy as heavily-muscled. Millicent, on the other hand... The picture I get in my head is Chyna from the wrestling world.

[nimrodel-13.livejournal.com]

I'm actually glad you posted this now because I'm working on my big bang and the epithets are driving me crazy Here's my problem; I write with really long paragraphs and a lot of description. When Harry and Draco, for example, are interacting one on one, it's really difficult not to use epithets. I try to use their names as much as I can but it gets to the point where that is more annoying than simply saying "the blond". And though my writing is from a particular POV (Draco's) because there is a 3rd voice involved, the narrator, I don't think calling him a blond or Harry dark-haired is wrong. *bangs head on table* I know a lot of people don't like them but many times, it's hard not to use them.

...now I'm paranoid and want to go back and read what I've written. I'm not sure what to do...:/