You want me to write *what*?!

[dulcemia.livejournal.com]

Hi all.

Do folks ever write substantially outside their comfort zone, simply as an exercise in technical craft?

I'm prompted to ask chiefly because I have a fic request from someone that I would like to honor despite the fact that the pairing squicks my face off, but I thought perhaps it's also just an interesting general question.

It seems to me that more than any other genre, slashfic/fanfic is dependent on desire in order to be written well; i.e., most slash authors are driven to write by what they want to see happen between characters, possibilities for relationships and events that are foreclosed or unexplored in canon. In a sense, that's the fundamental (granted, abridged) definition of "transformative works," and I'm wondering if it's possible to pen a narrative that is truly successful - emotionally affecting and erotically- er... 'convincing'? - if one is writing a pairing that doesn't personally resonate. Or, to broaden the scope beyond my particular quandary, writing squicking content for one that does.

Apologies in advance if this question is deemed Wrong Comm - I realize it's not an H/D question per se, but that's my OTP, so I thought I'd start here.


(If the specifics matter to anyone replying, the request I received is for Fred/George twincest. I hasten to add that my blessings go with slashers all, whatever their preferred pairings and predilections; that tw/incest squicks me should not be interpreted to mean that I disapprove of it in any way. Live and let live, ship and let ship, and scones for everyone, my motto.)

Comments

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[dulcemia.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for sharing your experiences. I really like the idea of approaching it as a challenge to produce something good. I suppose in a sense my little quandary falls under the larger umbrella of the general phenomenon of things in life that challenge us often proving worthwhile and productive, because they require us to grow and improve. And your own example is so inspiring - congrats that it turned out to be a fic you love! I look forward to peeking it - I dislike mpreg strongly myself, and it will be interesting to see if a writer who's a former squickee has written a piece that can convert a current one. :)

It's funny, a friend and I just this morning had a somewhat related conversation to your abandonment of the non-con story - she dropped a nascent piece because she didn't think she could do it well, but since she's weak in an area I'm strong in, and vice versa, we're writing it together. (Collabs: Practical and fun. Woot.)

Thanks again, very helpful!

[aylarah-scale.livejournal.com]

I've not written a great deal, but my LM/SS fic was written slightly outside of my comfort zone - it contains CBT, and I'd never written that sort of scene before. A friend of mine originally gave me the idea - I didn't really like it to begin with but couldn't get it out of my head. I found it difficult to write, but I also enjoyed the challenge at the same time. I found that writing something I'm not completely comfortable with made me think more about what exactly I was writing, as I still wanted to write something that other people would enjoy reading. Now that it's finished, I've ended up really liking the piece.

So I dunno... I suppose that I'd have to try to alter my frame of mind whilst I'm writing - not think about the fact that I don't like the fic, but think about how I can write it so that others will like the fic. I suppose you could latch onto any morbid fascination you have with it, use that to get you through :P

[dulcemia.livejournal.com]

It's interesting that so many of you have in fact ventured outside the zone, a lovely surprise. *Admires the lot of you* And it's sounding like it turned out to be a rewarding experience for most who took up the challenge.

Your notion of thinking about how to write it so that others will like the fic really resonates with me. And it makes sense that this kind of writing would nudge us a little more forcefully into that mindset, make us think more about the reader, and the fic at a more meta level, and with that "exactitude" you note. I'm glad to hear you really liked your results - that seems to be a recurring theme, and it's encouraging me to give this squicky fic assignment a whirl. Ha, love the morbid fascination angle :)

Thank you for the helpful chime-in!

[leela-cat.livejournal.com]

I've done this more than once - Snape/Lockhart, Prewett twincest, and Dudley/Harry are pairings I wrote to match someone else's request. In some ways, those turned out to be among the best stories I've written because I had to work to persuade myself that it could work before I even started. Once I'd found that scenario, I ended up persuading myself (and the readers) as I wrote.

You can focus on making others like the pairing, but in so many ways, you have to start with finding a way to make it work for yourself. Brainstorming with a friend really helped with that, at least for me.

[dulcemia.livejournal.com]

Awesome, thank you. Like others here, it sounds like your experience was one of the challenge of it actually resulting in the creation of some of your best work. And your particular way of articulating how that happens is very helpful - thinking about the reader is important, but I also _do_ need to find a way that it can work for -me- if I'm to be able to further persuade myself in and by the writing, and hence, once complete, the reader.

I love brainstorming, it's one of my fave parts of the writing process, but in this case, the generous comments have done the job, and I think I've come up with a way to make this initially strange pairing work for me. ~Yay~

[slytherincesss.livejournal.com]

I think this is a fantastic question for this comm and I'm so glad you posted!

I think it's entirely possible to write hot fic when your heart isn't perhaps 100% into the fic for whatever reason. Like, H/D was not an instant OTP for me. It's taken me years to genuinely like the pairing. Because I'm such a canon whore, it's hard for me to sometime imagine Harry and Draco together plausibly, and I have to work on suspending my disbelief. It's very challenging to write certain aspects of their relationship for me. The first time I wrote a H/D sex scene, I literally had to think about every move they made and plan it out super carefully; fortunately, the fic was received as that scene being fluid and rawr and all the things I had hoped it would be. But it was so difficult to write. For some reason, I just couldn't get inside their heads and really get into it -- sounds like that's what you're having with Gred and Feorge. At times when I was having such writer's block with H/D, I had to imagine them with another character and then place those actions back onto the H/D. So I'd imagine Draco with, say, Zacharias Smith, and something would come to mind, and I would figure out whether or not that would work with Harry, and if it did, I put it in.

I think when writing for a prompt it's possible to find something you like about the pairing -- for example, their banter when they're not engaged in sexual relations; their general relationship; humor, etc. Anyway, one thing that works when writing a squicky-to-you pairing is to imagine a pairing you do like, and to superimpose their actions onto the characters that need to be written (unless that would make it grossly OOC . . . for example, I can't iamgine the twins being into D/s or BDSM, but that's just me!)

[dulcemia.livejournal.com]

I think this is a fantastic comm for this question and I'm so glad I posted!

And a fantastic answer. Your way around your H/D writer's block is interesting, shifting to another character/pairing that clicks better with you, and then superimposing what works back onto the one you're writing at the time. That might not work for me, but your advice to find something I like about the pairing, and use that as a way "in" to the sexualized version of the pairing is brilliant! That's perfect, and it's exactly what I needed for the twins, because there are so many aspects of their canon relationship that I really love.

Heh, I'm totally with you on a bdsmish Fred/George. That's pretty OOC. I might find the pairing personally strange, but as I hook these two up, it has to be as them: Sweet, funny, good humored. Thanks so much for your help :)

[kitty_fic]

Interesting question and it's certainly welcome at the comm :)

Personally, I don't think that I could write something that squicked me. I think you are right that fanfic is dependent on what we want to write.

I do want to say that I think it's good to stretch your comfort zone but stepping completely out of it is something else entirely.

So have you decided to write it or no?

[dulcemia.livejournal.com]

Thanks muchly for the nice welcome. I'm still a bit new to the fandom, and mightily fear faux pas. *Whew*

It makes sense to me that there would be just as many people who couldn't or wouldn't take on a squicky fic as there are those who venture. If someone had asked me a month ago which I was, I'd have been with you, in the Nah camp, but now... I've decided to go for it.

There's content that I would never be willing to write for my OTP, and probably pairings that I'd refuse to attempt, but it seems from all the helpful and generous replies here that jumping the comfort zone fence can strengthen writing skills, and even turn out to be an unexpectedly pleasurable experience, so try I shall. Fred/George, here I come :)

[dulcemia.livejournal.com]

Interesting solution. I think it really is a growth experience for us when we're forced to tell a story differently than we usually would, and yours is a particularly good example. And props to you for taking it on. Thank you, very helpful!

[thisgirl-is.livejournal.com]

Actually, that was half the reason I wrote for the snaco_exchange last year - just to see if I could. I'd never written Snape before at all, and I'm pretty sure that if you go back far enough in my journal there is actually a post where I say that Snape!sex is a squick of mine. It's still not my favourite thing, but I'm pretty much over the squick.

For the fic, I set it some 20 years later, to avoid the power imbalances that come with a teacher/student, big age gap pairing. I think part of the challenge is defining what it is that squicks you about whatever it is, and finding ways to work around it. I dislike relationships where the emotional power is seriously weighted in one direction, so I aged them up so it wouldn't matter so much - Draco has a lot more life experience under his belt, and it changes the dynamic a lot.

That said, I can't think of a way around incest as a squick. I was going to suggest writing them as OCs and changing the names after, but there is something that comes from growing up with someone that you would lose by writing them as anything other than brothers.

Good luck to you!

[dulcemia.livejournal.com]

Thank you, this is so helpful! Hearing how this has panned out for others, and seeing specific workarounds like the one you managed - deftly, it sounds like - in the case of your Snaco is really invaluable. (Defining what it is that squicks me about the incest is vital to making a go of this fic, and that's not necessarily easy - some of it is just a sociocultural reflex: we hear the word, and automatically think "wrong.")

In reading the comments, I've come to believe that this fic is possible, and you're exactly right about the OC/switchout. That simply won't do. I need to write them as brothers; in this case, brothers whose love is not only familial and fraternal but also romantic. Challenging, but I'm looking forward to it now, thanks muchly for the cheer on!

[kinky-kneazle.livejournal.com]

Any writing questions are welcome and this one's a great one!

To answer your question, I like challenging myself with new things because it keeps fandom interesting as well as having a good effect on my writing. That's why I always say "I'll take anything" when I sign up for fests (God knows that's backfired on occasion). I think trying different genres, kinks, pairings and the like will always improve your writing, but something that's a full-on squick (like non-con for me) it might be better to approach from a different angle.

Like, if I had a twincest kink, I might introduce polyjuice, or have mirrors in use, or one of them spying on the other rather than having to write an actual sex scene between the two of them. I had abuse come up on a fest for me (which is a huge squick for me), and managed to turn it around in a way I could make it work while not having to depict the really squicky stuff. Maybe that would work for you.

[dulcemia.livejournal.com]

I'm so inspired by your "I'll take anything" boldness! Never imagined I'd be venturing outside my preferred pairings/themes/&tc., and now I'm actually really looking forward to pulling on my Going Exploring boots.

Thanks muchly for the suggestions - all of which are so fab I might actually write another F/G just to explore some of them. (So funny to be considering doing that, given how certain I was that I'd never ship the twins.) With this one, I ended up being oblique more at the level of the language itself, letting lyricism do the work I wasn't comfortable doing with head-on description. Being challenged in this way really was productive, skill-sharpening, and, to my great surprise, pleasurable. Oh slash. The bestest of hobbies. Thanks again.