Checking level of interest.

[emansil-12.livejournal.com]

Would anyone here be interested in participating in some critical reviews of fics?  Not sure if would be a whole new community or find a way to incorporate it here, or even as a chatzy subset.

It would operate a bit differently than most critique groups. Instead of posting or requesting help for things unfinished, which from my own experience can shut the muse up faster than just about anything, take a finished fic, one that has already been posted and is a done thing.   The goal here being to learn to improve the quality of our writing in general, not to improve the quality of a partifcular fic. It would be best if you kept the word count under 1000. It could be a complete ficlet, drabble, or take a small section of a longer fic. 

The others will offer positive and constructive, yet respectfull always, advice: what was done well, what are your strengths, what could use some improvement and how the improvements could be done.  Again the goal would be to improve the overall quality of writing, while  trying to keep the critique of the actual contents of the fic to a minimum. Telling not showing is quality of writing critque, as is too much information dumping a worthy critique of the writing. Arguing that Draco would never bottom for Harry, is more fic content critque, characterizations are debatable, could be either one. Grammar and punctuation errors are quality writing critique, not liking the pov someone chooses not so much, at least IMHO.

Having participated in several of these types of groups before what usually happens is the same few people are the ones that submit their work over and over while others just sit back and observe. Being the only one bringing anything up for review begins to feel like you're the only one with your bare arse hanging out at the nude beach.  If you agree to this, whatever it ends up being, you must agree to post for review at least once every two month, and everyone must contribute to the reviewing part as well at least once every two months.  It's really only fair. It's meant to be participation based not lurker based.  There may even be consequences, such as being removed, or having your priviledges provoked.  I'm not sure, it is up for discussion and debate.

Any interest?  Please I'd love to hear your thoughts, concerns, criticisms.

Comments

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

This is laudatory but a land mine. I have found that critique even with non-fandom based material is difficult. Fan-based material adds a whole different level of potential hurt. Part of the energy of fandom is that we unite our fantasy wtih a bigger fantasy of the whole. Some awesome energy can take place when the "melding" occurs. However, when the concept of critique fanfiction ends up falling apart a little because it's not JUST about the writing. It's often how well our fantasy dovetails with the other person's fantasy. If it was just about the writing, then it's possible. When you throw in the personal fantasy, then I think it becomes so much more loaded. Because as a writer you can certainly put forth what you think character a should be and how they should act. But we all have our secret Draco and secret Harry, and if someone doesn't write them the way we want to see them, then how do you honestly critique that if they aren't writing established characters the way YOU see them.

Landmines ahead.

[jad.livejournal.com]

^ what she said. Also:

It's a good idea -- in theory. Most authors er, intelligent people who write for a hobby/living would take the crit well, but that's about .05% of any fandom population (or population in general, really). Most people get defensive when criticized; hell, sometimes I do.

Here's a spin on your idea: how about open the forum to authors to submit their stories for review? This way, they know what they're getting into. You might also want to moderate the reviews themselves, I don't know, but this way the author isn't suddenly subjected to unwanted crit.

[emansil-12.livejournal.com]

I usually go into a major funk for about 48 hours when I'm criticezed, even when I've asked/begged for it, so I understand. But then I brush myself off, really pay attention to what was said, and try to figure out what parts I feel are valid and work on making those changes.

The agreement to join or be part of this would be completely voluntary. Howver, once you've agreed part of the membership would be an agreement that you would be willing to present something you wrote. I've just seen so many critique groups that ended up being just a few that were willing to be active.

The writer choses what he/she wants to be reviewed. And they can even tell us what part of the finished product they want critiqued.

[emansil-12.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the warning, I'll try to be careful where I place my feet.

Seriously though, I understand, I think, what you're saying. Our fandom, is just that ours or rather mine, its personal and thus it opens us up to potential and unintentional wounding. I would hope that wouldn't happen. That was the main reason I thought making it about things already posted might curtail some of that. Not as many landmines, maybe?

Characterizations are what I see as the real problem. Like you said we all have our way of how we see the characters, rather it's Harry and Draco as well as those others that are part of your particular narative. But being able to write your vision of these and any other characters and make others believe, if even for just the duration of the story, is the sign of an excellent writer.

That being said I do think, if this comes to pass, that would have to be a limit on critque of characterization, with the focus being on style.

[kitty_fic]

I think it's a really interesting idea. You'd just have to set out some pretty definitive guidelines on how it would work :)

[emansil-12.livejournal.com]

Definitely would need guidelines, and I sort of think those should be determined, to some extent, by those who agree to participate.


The only rule I would be firm on would be the participation one. That's something I know I'll struggle with, especially the critquiing part. I never feel my comments and suggestion are as good as the others. I tend to shy away from any public sort of response.

But if have to, so do others. *hrmp*

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

We started hdwritersanon a while back and it gave writers and it's modded to avoid wank-potential. It hasn't been used in a while.

[emansil-12.livejournal.com]

I remember that! I was part of it under a different name. It was good. I enjoyed it, but... the thing I seem to recall was that only a few ever really actively participated. One person would submit, I did once, and then the wait for any kind of comment or suggestion was intermidable.

Level of participation drives level of interest and vice versa. At least that's my thoughts.

[dysonrules.livejournal.com]

I seem to have deleted half of my sentence in my original comment. LOL! Apparently I need a comment-beta.

Anyway, yes, participation is key to anything of this sort, but I think it boils down to the fact that writers can be delicate creatures. We want critique, but we don't really want negative critique. We want to know what we're doing right and not so much what we're doing wrong. Even those of us with really thick skin can get butthurt over criticism, so people in fandom tend not to give negative feedback. And allowing anon feedback opens up the potential for those who thrive on anon-bullying to jump in and wreak havoc.

[emansil-12.livejournal.com]

So very very very true. All of it. but I want to believe there is a way to make this happen. Call me a naive optimist.


Really good point about the anon-bullying, I hadn't thought about that.

[usakiwigirl.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think I would like to try this. I haven't written any H/D in a while, but I have some older stuff that I would like to have looked over, especially as I can see differences myself from earlier to later stories. I'd like to have somebody else's opinion - most of my writing is not beta'ed, so criticism is non-existent. And maybe, just maybe, it will give me the impetus to go back and finish the long line of WIP's I have waiting for me!

[emansil-12.livejournal.com]

Yes. Seeing how we could have done something better, how we maybe have improved, what we still need assistance or guidance on. That was the idea of this.

And I really do think it will work best if it's things we've already completed and posted. My experience of asking for critique of things not yet posted just left me feeling all kinds of hopeless and really, really shut down my ability to finish.

[lucius-complex.livejournal.com]

Hi! I'm very interested. But does it have to be H/D and nothing else? Am wondering if you'd be able to make the gap wider for writers like me to wriggle through - such as 'HP slash' or 'Griffindor/Slytherin'

But I do applaud your idea. One prob I encounter wt beta is that they only seem to do Spelling & Grammar, so theres no way to improve. I would love to be part of such a group.

:)

[emansil-12.livejournal.com]

Definitely would love to include all pairings. This was posted here, mainly because it's the one writers comm I'm aware of. If this happens it will be open to all pairings.

In regards to the beta issue. I'd be glad to help you out there. I don't do SPaG, I'm horrible at that, but I do offer suggestions on other aspects. I read all pairings. If you're interested you can email me emansil08@gmail.com. and I can send you an example of my take on betaing.

[all-not-well.livejournal.com]

I had a longer comment, but LJ doesn't like me and therefore won't let me post it. :-\ So, to sum up: I LOVE this idea, and would love to participate!

Personally, I wish people WOULD leave constructive criticism on my fics. I get more excited about writing when I get actual feedback, even if it's to say that I could've done better. I get depressed when I look at the stats that say how many people stopped by and said NOTHING. I want to shake them and ask what I did wrong, why they didn't like it - was it the kink, or the writing, or what?

[emansil-12.livejournal.com]

I hate it when lj does that! But I am extraordinarly glad!!! that you want to participate. I've been brainstorming regarding how I want to set this up.

I understand EXACTLY what you're saying about the feedback. I love it. And even when it's negative, it at least shows that it impacted them in some way to bother to leave a comment. Mediocrity is not what I'm trying to achieve.

Yay for another definite interest.

[kitty_fic]

I had a discussion once with someone (I think it was masteroftrouble) who wanted a fest dedicated to feedback...

basically a "fest where part of the participation is to give con-crit... Most likely with more than a few mods who browse the comments and have no issues with telling people "that one was a bit rude, you need to balance this with something good."


Is that along the lines of what you're looking for?

[all-not-well.livejournal.com]

Oooh, oooh, this too!!!

*jumps up and down*

[amorette.livejournal.com]

How did I just see this!? I think critical review is awesome! Doesn't slashpervert have a whole cm dedicated to discussing her fics? I think that's BADASS! I would love to see a com like this. Please keep us updated:)

Edit: I think authors would have to offer themselves up for critique, maybe? But that takes all the fun out of, "I just read this one fic where they did this and this is how I feel about it...."

It could turn really bad, but that sucks because good fic-discussion is part of the fun of reading these (for me). Maybe start little tiny groups of people? This is hard...

[emansil-12.livejournal.com]

Well, I just realized I'd not responded to this. I've not responded to a lot lately.

There is no doubt this would have to be at the author's reqsust. to offer up critique on something that was not requested just seems oh so very very wrong, imho. Being one that always fears it will be one of my fics being discussed in a "badfics rant", or "worstficsevah" discussion, the very thought makes me shiver, and not with joy or desire.

BUT! for any one that reallyt wants assistance and honest critique and discussion I'd love to see an opportunity for it to be offered.

I realize it's been a while since I brought this discusssion up, I still plan on doing something with it. I'm just not sure when. I do hope you'll still be interested when I do.

[amorette.livejournal.com]

Want to just use one of my ficlets as a test fic? Actually lets email about this. mariannamerlo@gmail.com

[emansil-12.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to let you know, I've not forgotten about this or meant to blow you off. It's just things and me have been a bit off and out of kilter for the last few weeks.

I'll get in touch sometime soon, I promise. We'll have long emaily chats.