Discussion Post: Beta reading
Mar. 15th, 2012 08:07 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
thisgirl-is.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
hd_writersOK, this is how I see this post working. I'm going to talk a little bit about the beta process, link some links I think you might find handy, and ask some questions to help get some conversation started. Then you guys take it from there. Talk about your experiences with beta reading. Are you a Beta? Great! Tell us how it works from the Beta side. Got handy links? Link 'em! I will add them to the resources at the bottom of the post. I plan to put a link to the resources section in the Comm’s sidebar for handy future reference.
Before I get started, this post is not intended to be me telling you how to beta, or how the beta process works. The beta process is a pretty individual thing - it's a case of figuring out what works for you as a Writer or as a Beta, and finding people you can work well with.
The first step for a Writer is to know what you want from a Beta. There are lots of different things entailed in betaing a fic, and some Betas are better at some things than they are at others.
• Do you just want a SPaG (Spelling, Punctuation, and Grammar) check to make sure there are no blatant errors?
• Are you writing from a different country than the one where your fic is set, and want someone who can check language usage?
• Do you want someone who can check your characterisation?
• How about plot arc/plot holes/themes/canon knowledge/world-building/POV/tenses/canon compliance...?
So, know what you want from your Beta. This should also include how detailed you want your Beta to be. Are you looking to develop as a writer, or do you just want to make sure there are no embarrassing typos? How much honesty can you take? These are things your Beta needs to know. (Just to be clear, it's totally OK if you're not looking to be pushed in terms of writing craft. We're all doing it for fun here, and you're the one who decides what you want to get out of writing. Just, if that's you, make sure your Beta knows that's where you're at, and isn't trying to fix something you're not bothered about.)
Step Two is finding a Beta. Start out by asking your f-list, either in a post, or contact someone you know who might do it for you. Again, think about what you want before you ask someone. They may be willing to help you, but they may also want to go into more detail than your ego can take. Be honest with yourself.
I want to bring in![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
rickey_a's Beta-Writer Ladder Theory. This talks about the match or disparity between skill levels of a Writer and a Beta. There's some fairly heavy stats talk in there, but Rickey is good at explaining what it means, and what it means for you. I really recommend giving it a read.
As a writer, it’s useful to find a Beta who is a rung up the ladder from you. A Beta of a slightly higher level will spot things like usage errors that someone on the same level as you may miss. This is important when it comes to attracting an audience. Regardless of why you write, it’s incredibly satisfying to know that your story has found an audience that is wider than your immediate social group. But there is a lot of fic out there, and people have limited time to read it all. People will make decisions about what they read based on all kinds of criteria, but a common thing that discourages readers is SPaG errors.* A Beta from a higher rung will be able to help you weed out more of these.
If you don’t know where to find a Beta there are comms which can help you connect with people who are looking for some fic to beta. I've linked a few active ones I've found in the Resources section at the bottom of the post. Any Betas who are reading, consider checking out these comms, and maybe joining if you have time.
This isn't really a step, so much as another thing to consider: At what point do you want to start the beta process? Do you want to finish your first draft, then send it away complete, have it returned, and then edit it? Alternatively, you might want to share it while you're writing, so that any issues with continuity, or things like arcs where the whole thing is based on something you've got wrong in the first place can be caught early. Food for thought.
Which brings me to the next step - the mechanics of sharing your work with your Beta.
The traditional, and probably most common, method is to email the completed document. Assuming you're using MS Word, you can then use the Track Changes and Insert Comment functions, the Beta can go nuts, and the Writer can accept or decline changes as they wish once it's returned to them.
Other tools include Googledocs. This has the benefit of multiple users able to access the document simultaneously. It has Insert Comment functionality, and a chat function within the document. What it doesn't have is a track-changes feature, so you need to work a method for the Beta to indicate where they have made changes. I have used different colour text to indicate this, but some people find that a lot of trouble – the Beta may find it’s a pain to change colours for a minor change or to insert a comment to say that they’ve removed a comma, and Writers have to go back over it to get rid of colours and unwanted changes.
What works for you?
This space left deliberately blank for inserting member suggestions
Online document sharing:
Acrobat
Googledocs
I like to incorporate chat into the process, generally. Sometimes it's useful to be able to ask in real time what the Writer intends, if it isn't clear, or if the Beta thinks the Writer may be using a word that does not mean what they think it means. It also allows for debate. Because sometimes the Writer doesn't agree with the Beta - sometimes the Beta has not understood what the Writer is trying to say. This means the Writer probably needs to clarify something, but it may not be what the Beta has suggested. There are also style choices. Sometimes the Beta may not like something about the Writer's style, but that doesn't mean the Writer has to change it. (I do have to insert a caveat here: Just because a Writer has always done something wrong, it doesn't make it a style choice, it makes it an ongoing mistake. If your Beta tells you something is wrong, consider that it might be, even if you'd prefer it wasn't.)
If at all possible (sometimes it isn’t, due to fest deadlines) the fic should be looked over again after the Writer has edited it. This should include the summary. If your summary has a ridiculous typo in it, or doesn’t actually make sense, people will be put off reading the fic. This is not to say that no one will read it at all, but there will be people who will be put off. A second read-through will pick up errors in corrections you have made, or bits you thought of once you got your hands back on it, and will also pick up where previous Beta notes have been left in. Few things will throw a reader out of a fic faster than a sentence that suddenly asks existential questions about itself. E.g. “…to reign Should this be rein? in his impulses.” Confused? Exactly.
*You guys, we need to talk about using apostrophes for plurals. I swear I am going to write a post about it.
So that’s my thoughts. Everyone should feel free to add their comments, question things, or disagree vehemently with anything I’ve said. Meanwhile, here are a few questions.
Questions
What other tools do you use for sharing/betaing fic? How does it work?
What’s your process?
Any pet peeves, as a Writer or as a Beta?
Got any helpful links?
Resources
Find a Beta
If you want a Beta, but don't know where to start, try these communities:
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
hp_beta | hp_betas | hp_betas_wanted
Check things for yourself
tari_sue's HP Canon Spellings This includes some notes about usage, and some more handy links.
A Dictionary of British Slang
Common Errors in English Usage
Get help with details
Sometimes you just have a pesky question, one tiny detail you want to check with someone who might know. Here are some comms which may be able to help. Always start with reading the profile page for posting rules, etc.
hp_britglish - "We are here to help Harry Potter fans who are not from the UK to understand English as she is spoken in her homeland, and to provide a bunch of resources for readers and fanwriters alike."
britpickery - “BRITPICKERY exists to supplement, not to supplant, all the other wondrous and praiseworthy Britpicking resources in fandom, from FA to LJ. Its primary purpose is to address precisely the things no one ever thinks to ask (if writing) or to mention (if editing, critiquing, or Britpicking).”
food_in_fiction - "This comm is for writers and readers to discuss food and drink in fiction, and to improve their own writing."
little_details - "a community that helps writers with their research and fact-checking. We have a large, diverse membership that can answer questions such as: "If I hit my character on the head like so, what will happen?"; "Will this destroy the Earth?"; "Can guys have freckles on their penises?"
All types of fiction writers--professional, amateur, fanfiction, original--are welcome to post questions. Our focus is on factual accuracy rather than general writing advice. If you're still not sure what we're about, reading our recent entries page should give you a better idea."
military_beta - "This is a community where fanfic writers or any kind of writer can ask specific questions about the military and get solid answers that take the guesswork out of your writing. Don't be afraid to ask anything. The only stupid question is the unasked question and that will show in your writing."
multinationbeta - "Nothing takes a reader out of story faster than slang or language that isn't correct for their country. This is the place you can go to find a beta to help you with the insider details of a country's culture or language."
science_beta - Mod Note - this comm hasn't been updated since 2008, but new questions would be welcomed. "Writing fanfiction and don't have the technobabble to back yourself up? Stuck on understanding a concept and would like the opinions of people rather than a website? Heard something interesting or new in the scientific community and want to let people know about it? Then this is the place for you."
For betas
betas_anonymous - This community is for those who beta fanfiction, with a special interest in Harry Potter. Here, you can: Exchange tips on working with authors, their files, and their egos; Ask for advice on dealing with specific problems related to beta reading; Get a second opinion if you're not sure about plot, characterization, or usage; Post links to online resources that you'd like to share with the group.
Before I get started, this post is not intended to be me telling you how to beta, or how the beta process works. The beta process is a pretty individual thing - it's a case of figuring out what works for you as a Writer or as a Beta, and finding people you can work well with.
The first step for a Writer is to know what you want from a Beta. There are lots of different things entailed in betaing a fic, and some Betas are better at some things than they are at others.
• Do you just want a SPaG (Spelling, Punctuation, and Grammar) check to make sure there are no blatant errors?
• Are you writing from a different country than the one where your fic is set, and want someone who can check language usage?
• Do you want someone who can check your characterisation?
• How about plot arc/plot holes/themes/canon knowledge/world-building/POV/tenses/canon compliance...?
So, know what you want from your Beta. This should also include how detailed you want your Beta to be. Are you looking to develop as a writer, or do you just want to make sure there are no embarrassing typos? How much honesty can you take? These are things your Beta needs to know. (Just to be clear, it's totally OK if you're not looking to be pushed in terms of writing craft. We're all doing it for fun here, and you're the one who decides what you want to get out of writing. Just, if that's you, make sure your Beta knows that's where you're at, and isn't trying to fix something you're not bothered about.)
Step Two is finding a Beta. Start out by asking your f-list, either in a post, or contact someone you know who might do it for you. Again, think about what you want before you ask someone. They may be willing to help you, but they may also want to go into more detail than your ego can take. Be honest with yourself.
I want to bring in
rickey_a's Beta-Writer Ladder Theory. This talks about the match or disparity between skill levels of a Writer and a Beta. There's some fairly heavy stats talk in there, but Rickey is good at explaining what it means, and what it means for you. I really recommend giving it a read. As a writer, it’s useful to find a Beta who is a rung up the ladder from you. A Beta of a slightly higher level will spot things like usage errors that someone on the same level as you may miss. This is important when it comes to attracting an audience. Regardless of why you write, it’s incredibly satisfying to know that your story has found an audience that is wider than your immediate social group. But there is a lot of fic out there, and people have limited time to read it all. People will make decisions about what they read based on all kinds of criteria, but a common thing that discourages readers is SPaG errors.* A Beta from a higher rung will be able to help you weed out more of these.
If you don’t know where to find a Beta there are comms which can help you connect with people who are looking for some fic to beta. I've linked a few active ones I've found in the Resources section at the bottom of the post. Any Betas who are reading, consider checking out these comms, and maybe joining if you have time.
This isn't really a step, so much as another thing to consider: At what point do you want to start the beta process? Do you want to finish your first draft, then send it away complete, have it returned, and then edit it? Alternatively, you might want to share it while you're writing, so that any issues with continuity, or things like arcs where the whole thing is based on something you've got wrong in the first place can be caught early. Food for thought.
Which brings me to the next step - the mechanics of sharing your work with your Beta.
The traditional, and probably most common, method is to email the completed document. Assuming you're using MS Word, you can then use the Track Changes and Insert Comment functions, the Beta can go nuts, and the Writer can accept or decline changes as they wish once it's returned to them.
Other tools include Googledocs. This has the benefit of multiple users able to access the document simultaneously. It has Insert Comment functionality, and a chat function within the document. What it doesn't have is a track-changes feature, so you need to work a method for the Beta to indicate where they have made changes. I have used different colour text to indicate this, but some people find that a lot of trouble – the Beta may find it’s a pain to change colours for a minor change or to insert a comment to say that they’ve removed a comma, and Writers have to go back over it to get rid of colours and unwanted changes.
What works for you?
This space left deliberately blank for inserting member suggestions
Online document sharing:
Acrobat
Googledocs
I like to incorporate chat into the process, generally. Sometimes it's useful to be able to ask in real time what the Writer intends, if it isn't clear, or if the Beta thinks the Writer may be using a word that does not mean what they think it means. It also allows for debate. Because sometimes the Writer doesn't agree with the Beta - sometimes the Beta has not understood what the Writer is trying to say. This means the Writer probably needs to clarify something, but it may not be what the Beta has suggested. There are also style choices. Sometimes the Beta may not like something about the Writer's style, but that doesn't mean the Writer has to change it. (I do have to insert a caveat here: Just because a Writer has always done something wrong, it doesn't make it a style choice, it makes it an ongoing mistake. If your Beta tells you something is wrong, consider that it might be, even if you'd prefer it wasn't.)
If at all possible (sometimes it isn’t, due to fest deadlines) the fic should be looked over again after the Writer has edited it. This should include the summary. If your summary has a ridiculous typo in it, or doesn’t actually make sense, people will be put off reading the fic. This is not to say that no one will read it at all, but there will be people who will be put off. A second read-through will pick up errors in corrections you have made, or bits you thought of once you got your hands back on it, and will also pick up where previous Beta notes have been left in. Few things will throw a reader out of a fic faster than a sentence that suddenly asks existential questions about itself. E.g. “…to reign Should this be rein? in his impulses.” Confused? Exactly.
*You guys, we need to talk about using apostrophes for plurals. I swear I am going to write a post about it.
So that’s my thoughts. Everyone should feel free to add their comments, question things, or disagree vehemently with anything I’ve said. Meanwhile, here are a few questions.
Questions
What other tools do you use for sharing/betaing fic? How does it work?
What’s your process?
Any pet peeves, as a Writer or as a Beta?
Got any helpful links?
Resources
Find a Beta
If you want a Beta, but don't know where to start, try these communities:
hp_beta | hp_betas | hp_betas_wantedCheck things for yourself
tari_sue's HP Canon Spellings This includes some notes about usage, and some more handy links.A Dictionary of British Slang
Common Errors in English Usage
Get help with details
Sometimes you just have a pesky question, one tiny detail you want to check with someone who might know. Here are some comms which may be able to help. Always start with reading the profile page for posting rules, etc.
hp_britglish - "We are here to help Harry Potter fans who are not from the UK to understand English as she is spoken in her homeland, and to provide a bunch of resources for readers and fanwriters alike."britpickery - “BRITPICKERY exists to supplement, not to supplant, all the other wondrous and praiseworthy Britpicking resources in fandom, from FA to LJ. Its primary purpose is to address precisely the things no one ever thinks to ask (if writing) or to mention (if editing, critiquing, or Britpicking).”food_in_fiction - "This comm is for writers and readers to discuss food and drink in fiction, and to improve their own writing."little_details - "a community that helps writers with their research and fact-checking. We have a large, diverse membership that can answer questions such as: "If I hit my character on the head like so, what will happen?"; "Will this destroy the Earth?"; "Can guys have freckles on their penises?"All types of fiction writers--professional, amateur, fanfiction, original--are welcome to post questions. Our focus is on factual accuracy rather than general writing advice. If you're still not sure what we're about, reading our recent entries page should give you a better idea."
military_beta - "This is a community where fanfic writers or any kind of writer can ask specific questions about the military and get solid answers that take the guesswork out of your writing. Don't be afraid to ask anything. The only stupid question is the unasked question and that will show in your writing."multinationbeta - "Nothing takes a reader out of story faster than slang or language that isn't correct for their country. This is the place you can go to find a beta to help you with the insider details of a country's culture or language."science_beta - Mod Note - this comm hasn't been updated since 2008, but new questions would be welcomed. "Writing fanfiction and don't have the technobabble to back yourself up? Stuck on understanding a concept and would like the opinions of people rather than a website? Heard something interesting or new in the scientific community and want to let people know about it? Then this is the place for you."For betas
betas_anonymous - This community is for those who beta fanfiction, with a special interest in Harry Potter. Here, you can: Exchange tips on working with authors, their files, and their egos; Ask for advice on dealing with specific problems related to beta reading; Get a second opinion if you're not sure about plot, characterization, or usage; Post links to online resources that you'd like to share with the group.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2012-03-15 12:21 pm (UTC)My second pet hate is when a beta explains my errors to me in such a lengthy way it's almost an essay in itself. I type quickly, so I make typos and abuse apostrophes. I always say this to a beta (a disclaimer of sorts) and honestly find it a little insulting when I get a half-page of writing explaining to me exactly what an apostrophe is and how to use it. Even more so when they do it more than once in a document. Yes, I make errors, but I am not an idiot.
That being said, most of the betas I have worked with are wonderful people, and I appreciate the help massively! The best ones are the ones who aren't afraid to say YOU ARE NOT MAKING SENSE, and who highlight errors with suggestions rather than patronizing explanations.
I am a terrible beta, I will admit. I don't have the capacity to step back and look at a fic objectively. I always want to tweak it to what I would say! The only beta-ing I am any good at is a simple typo/error highlighting job, brit-picking, or an overall story review. Anything in-between and I tend to overstep the line :)
Thank you for all the resources!
no subject
Date: 2012-03-22 07:24 am (UTC)Oh man, when I'm not in 'edit' mode, my commas are all over the show. I know perfectly well how to use them, but sometimes you just need to get the words down.
You're welcome! Hope they're helpful!
no subject
Date: 2012-03-15 02:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-03-15 10:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-03-15 11:05 pm (UTC)I'm not the best beta in the world - my grasp on the comma is not so good - but I adore my betas. My work is better for their input. I'm generally a 'write it all then send it on' person, though for the sake of Lorca I sent my Big Bang before it was completely finished. I do go to my beta(s) for advice as I'm writing, though, with brainstorming help and 'does this even work' questions.
As for peeves, I have two horror stories :D The first happened some time ago, I was paired randomly with a beta in a fest of some sort. The beta went through the entire (HP) fic and everywhere I had used an 's', changed it to a 'z' (like in realise/realize) and everywhere I had 'ou' (colour), changed the word to 'o' (color), then wrote a nasty note berating me for not even bothering to use spell-check, and if I had no pride in my work, blah, blah, blah. Didn't leave me with much confidence for the rest of her beta-ing work.
The second story is more fun. I used to get my (then) boyfriend to beta for me. He used to be a freelance journalist and in general knew his stuff, but he had no internet experience. I was writing something that used italics and bold a lot for headings and the like and I write the html directly into the document. Not knowing what all the < i > and < /i > meant, he deleted the lot to 'clean it up for me' and gave it back to me about an hour before I had to send it in. I almost died. I can laugh about it now, but I learnt my lesson: if you use your own shorthand anywhere, or code in text, explain it to your beta. I've had the same thing where I use XX or square brackets around a word where I'm not sure what I'm trying to say or think there's a better word and have ended up confusing people, so it's good to be clear with beta's up front.
My helpful link of the day is
no subject
Date: 2012-03-16 12:52 am (UTC)Calenthe's articles are great! She uses some awesome humor to liven up what might otherwise be dry reading. Love her.
I use Adobe Acrobat (used to be Buzzword) and GoogleDocs. I love the interactive format and I've found that Gdocs works pretty much the same as Adobe. You just have to click on the 'tools' and other things at the top. The other thing I like that Adobe doesn't have is a live chat box. That makes working together great when you are both on at the same time.
no subject
Date: 2012-03-22 07:53 am (UTC)Have you got a link for Acrobat/Buzzwords? I'm goin to put in a link for gdocs as well, It always seems so straightforward when you use it all the time, I didn't even think about linking gdocs when I wrote the post. I haven't used gdocs in a while, I must admit. They may have added some functionality while I wasn't looking.
I love the live chat box. It's so much easier when you can just ask the writer (or the beta, if you are the writer) about something that isn't clear
no subject
Date: 2012-03-22 08:17 am (UTC)https://www.acrobat.com/main/en/home.html
no subject
Date: 2012-03-22 07:47 am (UTC)Know-it-alls who don't know anywhere near as much as the like to think. Joy.
Oh no. Oh the horror. I do that as well, with the Xs and square brackets. I tend to be a bit of a perfectionist, which leads to stopping writing to ponder the exact word I want for 10 minutes. Obviously not terribly productive, so that's an attempt to get over it. It seems pretty obvious to me. It really confuses people?
That is a brilliant post! I will add it to the links, thanks!