Kamerreon's Advice on Writing

[kitty_fic]

A guide to writing that includes but is not limited to:
Basic Etiquette, Grammar, Punctuation, Capitalization, Dialougue, Tenses, POV, Etc


Though originally intended for fanfic only, most of this advice also applies to original fiction.

1. When writing a story, make sure that you rate the story appropriately. Think of it like going to a movie, just as you want to know what you’re getting into, so do your readers. You can even use movie ratings if you so wish: G, PG, PG-13, R, and NC-17. If you have something in the middle, make one up, such as: NC-15.

2. If your story is going to have romance, make sure that you list all planned pairings. If partway through you decide to add more, that’s fine. However, at the beginning, most readers would like to know what they’re getting themselves into. Not everyone likes the same pairings.

3. Make a section for warnings and warn for everything that is appropriate, regardless of whether you want it to be a surprise. In general, I highly recommend that you warn for all of the following:

· Slash: male homosexual relationships

· Femslash: female homosexual relationships

· Het: male/female relationships

· Incest: sexual relationships between blood relatives

· Chan: sexual relationships involving minors

· Sexual situations

· Sexual intercourse of any kind

· Attempted suicide/suicide/self-harm

· Adult language/profanity

· Alcohol use and/or drug use

· Bestiality: sexual relations between a human and an animal

· Rape/non-con: non-consensual sexual relations

· Attempted rape

· Dubious consent: dub-con

· Abuse of any kind

· Gender-changing

· Any sexual fetishes, such as: voyeurism, blood play, BDSM, etc.

· Character Death—main character

· Character Death—not a main character

· Cross-dressing

· Eating Disorders

· Mpreg: male pregnancy

· Graphic torture

· Abortion/miscarriages

4. It is very important for you to have a beta reader, and it’s best to work with an accredited one.

Yes, it is important for you to learn grammar rules, but all responsible authors should have a beta so that glaring errors (punctuation, spelling, plot holes, etc.) can be fixed, and your story can be made more enjoyable for everyone. Even professional writers have editors.

Also, make sure that you treat your beta reader with respect. Your story isn’t their “baby” and they are going to find things wrong with it. Take the criticism as it is meant—to help you improve your writing and your story.

Need a beta reader? I highly recommend Perfect Imagination, a directory for accredited beta readers. I can be found there, myself.

5. Avoid chat speak in your stories. A story is not a text message or an IM conversation, so please don’t treat it like one.

6. Avoid the excessive use of foreign languages in your story. Readers become frustrated when they come across a story and the author has large parts of the text in a foreign language. It makes the reader feel inferior and annoyed because they cannot understand it. Providing a glossary at the end of the chapter helps somewhat, but scrolling back and forth will quickly become tedious. It is best to limit or eliminate foreign languages in your writing.

You could do something like this to indicate a change in languages:

“But I love you, ‘Arry! You must know zat! Come live wiz me in France!” Gabrielle declared, lower lip extended in a pout.

Harry smiled wryly and shook his head. “Ah, but I’m in love with your sister, Fleur. I’m sorry, Gabrielle. I truly am,” he replied, switching smoothly to French.

In addition, you could simply italicize all words spoken in a foreign language and make a note at the beginning/end of the chapter that italicized words are (insert language here).

7. Use words appropriately. If you’ve been writing with shorter words, keep with that flow. Suddenly adding in a long word can change the whole flow and disrupt the reader.

Examples:

Correct: Harry sighed as he realized that not even his emotions were private.
Incorrect: Harry sighed as he realized that not even his emotions were sacrosanct.

Yes, the second sentence could work, but the use of ‘sacrosanct’ throws off the flow, as you should be able to tell.

8. As a writer, it is your duty to do your best to keep the characters in-character. Changing them doesn’t take any skill whatsoever. Yes, you may deviate somewhat, but only if you have a logical and reasonable explanation.

Example: If Harry Potter was in Slytherin, some of the pureblood ideology might have rubbed off on him. However, when everything else is canon, and he’s suddenly calling Hermione a ‘Mudblood’ for no reason, and he’s best friends with Draco Malfoy, I’m confused.

Especially make sure that they’re in character when they’re speaking. Snape should be intelligent and sarcastic, biting even. Hermione tends to over explain, or interrupt to clarify something. Harry speaks more informally, and so on.

9. Make sure that you do the appropriate research in your fandom. There are many lexicons online, and the books/shows/movies exist as well. There is no excuse for incorrectly spelling someone’s name, or a location, when there are many resources that can be utilized.

10. When posting, do not do any of the following:


· Answer reviews in the chapter

· Post Author’s Notes that are excessively long

· Post notes in the middle of a chapter

· Demand a specific number of reviews before the next update

· Have discussions with your imaginary muse, or the characters

11. Do not ever plagiarize another author! I don’t care how brilliant their story is, or how much it inspires you—just don’t do it.

12. When writing, do your best to come up with a truly unique idea, or take an old idea and twist it into something new. Readers quickly grow bored when they find what seem to be carbon copies of the same overused idea.

All right, so your Dumbledore is evil. Why should we care? How is he different from all the other evil Dumbledores out there? Is he Grindelwald in disguise? Is Dumbledore possessed?

Authors who can take a cliché and make it unique are truly worthy of praise.

13. Avoid excessive clichés in your writing. Just because it might sound like a good idea at first, doesn’t mean that it is. If it sounds completely unrealistic, it likely is, and you shouldn’t write it in. Only add what you can create a viable explanation for.

14. Avoid adding unnecessary information. If your story is about a war, and you have three chapters on someone going shopping, which are completely irrelevant and do not tie in, delete them/rewrite them. If you’re writing about a war and your character is buying crossbows and machetes, and they’ll be used, now I’m interested.

15. When writing adult language, make sure you do it appropriately. Excessive profanity only annoys the reader. If someone is trying to kill your character, he or she has every right to swear. If your character says ‘fuck’ every other word, then your story better be about prison inmates, because it’s getting old fast.

16. Capitalization should be used correctly. Always capitalize the following:

· The first word of every sentence

· Proper Nouns (e.g., People’s names, countries, cities, etc.)

· Major historical events (e.g., World War I)

17. Homonyms/Homophones are words that sound the same, but have different meanings. Please make sure that you are using the correct form of the word. People will often leave flames if you constantly misuse homonyms. Also, some words are spelled similarly, but mean entirely different things; you need to use the correct spelling!

Examples:

· Their, they’re, and there

· You’re and your

· Lead and led

· Defiantly and definitely

· Quit, quite, and quiet

· Wondering and wandering

· Red and read

· For, fore, and four

· Two, to, and too

The rules for using two, to, and too:

Two: A number (e.g., Harry has two best friends.)

To: Generally used to describe a change in location. (e.g., Hermione is going to the library.)

Commonly used phrases:

· Used to

· Supposed to

· Accustomed to

Too: Meaning ‘also’ or ‘in excess’. (e.g., Harry was never too tired to tell her the words: I love you too.)

18. Dialogue tags help readers to identify the speaker. They are very important. However, don’t use ridiculous and inane tags. Also, do not be afraid of the word ‘said’.

Examples:

Correct: “We should play Quidditch sometime,” Harry said.
Incorrect: “We should play Quidditch sometime,” Harry postulated.

Let’s be honest shall we, the second example sounds stupid. Avoid such things easily.

Recommended dialogue tags:

· Said

· Stated

· Explained

· Asked

· Inquired

· Whispered

· Shouted

· Yelled

Tags to avoid, unless they’re really necessary:

· Extrapolated

· Interjected

· Hollered

· Murmured

· Muttered

· Intoned

· Postulated

· Hypothesized

19. Correct capitalization for a dialogue tag that interrupts a sentence of dialogue.

Examples:

Correct: “I was wondering,” Harry began, “if you’d like to go to Hogsmeade this weekend?”
Incorrect: “I was wondering,” Harry began, “If you’d like to go to Hogsmeade this weekend?”

Notice that in the correct version ‘if’ is not capitalized.

20. Correct punctuation for dialogue with a dialogue tag at the end.

Examples:

Correct: “I hate Slytherins,” he said.
Incorrect: I hate Slytherins.” He said.

Notice that in the correct version, there is a comma instead of a period, and ‘he’ is not capitalized.

Examples:

Correct: “I hate Slytherins!” Ron said.
Correct: “I hate Slytherins!” he said.
Incorrect: “I hate Slytherins!” He said.

In the case of the first correct version, proper nouns are always capitalized. Notice that in the second correct version, ‘he’ is not capitalized.

Examples:

Correct: “Who are you?” Harry asked.
Correct: “Who are you?” he asked.
Incorrect: “Who are you?” He asked.

Notice that the rules for questions and exclamations are identical.

Examples:

Correct: “I hate Hufflepuffs!” He turned and walked away.
Incorrect: “I hate Hufflepuffs!” he turned and walked away.

Notice that ‘he’ is capitalized in the correct version. That is because these are two separate sentences. If there is no dialogue tag, the dialogue always ends with the appropriate punctuation, and the first word of the following sentence is capitalized.

21. Correct use for apostrophes:

· In contractions, which combines two word:

1. Can’t = Can not
2. Don’t = Do not
3. Won’t = Will not


Do not be afraid of contractions, especially when writing dialogue. “I am very sorry, please do not leave me!” sounds odd. A person is much more likely to say, “I’m sorry, please don’t leave me!”

· Possessive apostrophes, which show ownership:

1. Harry’s shirt
2. Hogwarts’ Quidditch Pitch
3. Sirius’s Animagus form (Note: The extra ‘s’ is present here because when pronounced, it has an extra ‘es’ sound. If it is not pronounced with the extra ‘es’ sound, then leave off the ‘s’ following the apostrophe.)
4. Its song (Note: It’s is a combination of ‘it’ and ‘is’, and is a contraction. Therefore, when you’re referring to an inanimate object that owns something, ‘its’ is the proper term.)


22. When writing dialogue, always put a comma before/after a person’s name if your character is speaking directly to someone.

Examples:

Correct: “Draco, let’s head to Potions,” Theo said.
Correct: “Let’s head to Potions, Draco,” Theo said.

23. Avoid using terms that are solely from anime, and other obscure references. Such as:

· Face-faulting

· Sweat-dropping

· Face-palming

Instead, say something to the effect of:

‘Harry could feel the sweat dripping down his back as he became more nervous,’ or ‘Harry put his head in his hands after the ridiculous comment Ron made.’

24. Using gender specific words can be tricky, and make you look foolish if you’re using the wrong one.

· Commonly used male terms: ‘blond’ and ‘brunet’ and ‘fiancé’

· Commonly used female terms: ‘blonde’ and ‘brunette’ and ‘fiancée’

25. One of the most important parts of a story is the characterization. This is what makes your characters and brings them to life. You might want to rethink your character if any of the following is true:

· Your character is unable to die

· Your character is unable to lose a fight

· Your character is physically perfect in every way

· Your character is smarter than everyone alive

· Your character can do anything

The above characteristics are commonly associated with Mary Sue and Gary Stu. You really don’t want to write either a Mary Sue, or a Gary Stu. Therefore, make sure your character has flaws.

Also, make sure that your characters react realistically! If your character has been abused, why are they all touchy-feely with everyone? If your character has been the victim of sexual assault, why are they shagging everyone they meet?

You need to remember that people’s experiences change them. If your Harry was just rescued after being tortured by Voldemort and the Death Eaters for two months, he better not be perfectly fine the next day, or the next week, or the next month.

26. When renaming a canon character, for whatever reason, don’t go overboard. When people read an extremely long, or geographically inappropriate name, it makes your story seem silly. Once again, I’ll use Harry as an example.

Good: Hadrian James Potter
Fair: Evan Jameson
Poor: Salazar Daemon Ayres Arcturus Potter-Grindelwald-Black

Also, make sure that the name you give your character is easily pronounceable. If you make a name too complex, it will simply annoy your readers. If needed, provide them with a pronunciation.

As for a name being geographically inappropriate: Harry has lived his whole life in Great Britain. Suddenly giving him an Asian name or a name from South America, regardless of how ‘cool’ it sounds, doesn’t usually fit the story—unless you have an in-depth reason why that name is chosen, and it relates to the actual story, not just your naming preferences.

Finally, if you’re not renaming, simply giving the characters a nickname, do so appropriately. Dumblefuck, Dumbledork, Sevvie-poo, and Moldy Voldy are all extremely lame, and will only reflect poorly on you as a writer.

27. If you are going to write in an original character, make sure that you avoid clichés. Follow the advice in the characterization, naming, and other areas. People aren’t likely to be interested in Amethyst Stardust Rainbow Lovely Diamond Emerald Lupin-Snape-Potter-Black, who’s a transfer student from America that has glowing, pale skin, luxurious black hair, radiant emerald-green eyes, and an IQ higher than Dumbledore’s.

28. Have a plot, unless you’re writing a PWP. Dumping filler chapter after filler chapter on your readers is not only cruel, but it reflects poorly on you as a writer. As a reader, I’d greatly prefer slower updates that have content worth reading, to frequent updates that are total rubbish.

29. Use correct paragraph structure. Every time someone new begins speaking, you must begin a new paragraph!

Examples:

Correct: “I hate you, ferret,” Harry said.

“Well I hate you more, Potty!” Draco replied.

“No, because I hate you the most,” Harry snapped back.

Incorrect: “I hate you, ferret,” Harry said. “Well I hate you more, Potty!” Draco replied. “No, because I hate you the most,” Harry snapped back.

Also, avoid extremely long paragraphs. Long walls of text are easy to get lost in, and they tend to hurt the eyes. As a rule of thumb, try not to have a paragraph that exceeds six or seven lines.

30. Use numbers appropriately in your writing.

Examples:

Correct: Harry Potter, who had just turned fifteen, was very excited to see that he’d gotten twelve presents from his friends.

Incorrect: Harry Potter, who had just turned 15, was very excited to see that he’d gotten 12 presents from his friends.

Unless you’re showing the time, or a date, always spell out the number. For the time: 1:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. are correct. Also acceptable: 1.00 a.m. and 1.00 p.m., depending on where you’re from. Now, when writing out the date: September 1, 1995 or 1 September 1995, once again depending on where you’re from.

31. Avoid the overuse of epithets. Let’s be honest shall we? How many people have clicked on a story, Draco/Harry or Harry/Hermione, only to learn that they’ve been deceived and the pairing is really: the blond/the emerald-eyed boy or the savior/the smartest witch of the generation.

Examples of epithets gone wrong:

1. The blond walked up behind the emerald-eyed boy when he was distracted and enfolded the raven in strong arms. The Slytherin Prince’s pale pink lips pressed succulent kisses to the emerald-eyed boy’s wild raven hair. The raven turned and stared into the blond’s glowing silver eyes. The blond and raven kissed passionately.

2. The savior of the wizarding world felt the monster in his chest growling as he watched the brunette. The smartest witch of their generation had become beautiful over the summer. The Gryffindor Golden Boy’s emerald eyes followed the brown-eyed witch’s progress as she paced in the common room. His best mate was desirable, and the savior knew he must possess the brunette.

There are these wonderful things called names and pronouns. Please use them!

1. Draco walked up behind Harry when he was distracted and enfolded him in strong arms. His pale pink lips pressed kisses to Harry’s hair. Harry turned and stared into Draco’s gray eyes. They kissed passionately.

2. Harry felt the monster in his chest growling as he watched Hermione. She had become beautiful over the summer. His eyes followed her progress as she paced in the common room. Hermione was desirable, and he knew he must possess her.

Raise your hand if you think the second version sounds less stupid. Your hand should now be in the air. Also, notice that in the second version unneeded adjectives were removed.

32. Never change tenses while writing. Pick one and stick with it throughout the whole story.

Examples:

Past Tense: Harry walked down the hallway, tossed an apple into the air, caught it, and then bit into it. “Mmm, very good,” he said.
Present Tense: Harry walks down the hallway, tosses an apple into the air, catches it, and then bites into it. “Mmm, very good,” he says.

The differences should be blatantly obvious.

33. Do not change the point of view. You should start and end the story in the same point of view. Changing the point of view alters the way the reader thinks, and thus brutally jars them out of the story.

Examples:

First Person: I sauntered into the Charms classroom and winked at Potter. His lips looked delicious, and I wanted to lick them.
Second Person: You sauntered into the Charms classroom and winked at Potter. His lips looked delicious, and you wanted to lick them.
Third Person: Draco sauntered into the Charms classroom and winked at Potter. His lips looked delicious, and Draco wanted to lick them.

Also, remember that you can’t jump from one person’s head to the next—unless you’re writing in third person omniscient. If the story is in Harry’s point of view, you can’t tell us what Snape is thinking about Hermione’s arse!

34. Avoid overusing ellipses. For those who don’t know the term, I’m sure you’ll recognize one if you see it: (. . .) Ellipses are meant to be used when someone slowly stops speaking, or to replace omissions in text.

Examples:

Correct: “I’m not sure if . . .” Harry’s words trailed off as he contemplated the many possible options.

Incorrect: “I was . . . wondering . . . what do you . . . think of . . . well, maybe . . . I’m not sure . . .” Harry’s words trailed off as he contemplated the many possible options.

The second example has almost no sentence structure and is very poorly written. It isn’t necessary to have that many ellipses, and it is grammatically incorrect as well.

Also, make sure you format them the same throughout. They can be spaced (. . .) or compact (...), and you may include a space between each side of the ellipsis and the surrounding words, or tag it (no space) onto the end of a word.

Examples:

Correct: “I just had to say that, well... I love you!”
Correct: “I had to tell you ... I love you, Harry!”

In addition to ellipses like those above, an ellipsis can also end a sentence. However, they look different. (. . . .) and (. . . ?) or (....) and (...?)

Examples:

I think I’ll go to Hogsmeade tomorrow. . . .

I wonder if he’ll go out with me . . . ?

They work in cases like this because it’s a complete sentence, but the person’s thoughts have still drifted off.

35. Avoid using dashes incorrectly. The one you’re most likely to need is the em dash, which is created by two hyphens: (--) becomes (—). This happens when the two hyphens connect directly to both surrounding words. If you have a space on either side of (--), it’ll turn into an en dash (–). Dashes serve several purposes.

· Showing an abrupt end to a sentence, if someone interrupts the speaker:

Examples:

Correct: “I think we should kill hi—”

“Harry, how can you even suggest that?” Hermione asked heatedly.

Incorrect: “I think we should kill hi…”

“Harry, how can you even suggest that?” Hermione asked heatedly.

Notice that in the incorrect version, the ellipsis is used. This is incorrect as it implies Harry stopped speaking, when, in fact, Hermione interrupted him.

· Connecting two completely separate thoughts:

Example:

“Ron, you need to complete your Transfig—Harry! What happened?”

Notice the abrupt break in thought. First Hermione is speaking to Ron, and then she notices Harry and completely changes what she was going to say.

· Providing additional information:

Example:

Ron picked up Crookshanks—ugly, smushed face creature that it was—and wished he could throw it out the window.

Here, the em dashes enclose extra information.

· Showing a break in dialogue that does not include a dialogue tag:

Example:

“Well that’s just”—Ginny grabbed a plate off the table and threw it against the wall—“bloody brilliant, isn’t it?”

Please note that the em dashes are outside the quotation marks in this instance.

If you’re interested in even more uses for dashes, please locate a grammar book.

36. Avoid over-emphasizing in your story. Yes, we all understand that you might mean something one way, but some people go overboard.

Do Not:

· Capitalize an entire sentence

· Underline an entire sentence

· Bold an entire sentence

Do:

· Italicize words that you feel must be emphasized

Examples:

Correct: “Harry, what in the world were you thinking?” Hermione demanded to know.

37. Make sure that you vary your sentence structure. Extremely simple sentences can be effective, but when several are used in a row, it breaks up the flow. Also, the lack of detail makes for uninteresting reading.

Example: Harry sat on the stool. The hat was placed on his head. He heard a voice. The hat talked to him. It placed him in Gryffindor.

The above reads like a shopping list and isn’t interesting in the least. Adding detail and using sentences that are more complex can remedy this.

Example: Harry nervously sat down on the three-legged stool. He held his breath as the hat landed on his head, and then almost jumped to his feet in shock when the hat spoke inside his mind. As the hat spoke to him, all he could do was hope he wouldn’t be in Slytherin; he was relieved when he was finally sorted into Gryffindor.

However, on the other hand, excessively long sentences are also annoying. Make sure to avoid run-ons.

Example: Harry sat down on the stool and waited for the hat to be placed on his head so that he’d be sorted into his proper house, thinking only that he didn’t want to be placed in Slytherin where all the Dark Lords supposedly came from, and besides, he wanted to be in Gryffindor with Ron Weasley, his very first friend.

Writing that almost gave me a headache, and I apologize to anyone who got one reading it.

38. Avoid excessive use of song lyrics/poetry. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve come across a story that is little more than song lyrics. Just because you like the song, doesn’t mean your readers will. Just because you think the lyrics fit, doesn’t mean your readers will. I can honestly say that I refuse to read anything that says ‘song!fic’ or something similar. My brain equates ‘song!fic’ with poor grammar, no plot, and terrible characterization. If you must use them, do so sparingly.

39. When writing a story with multiple chapters, try to keep the chapters’ length similar. As long as the chapters are within 1,000 words of each other, you’re usually all right. However, larger differences are acceptable when chapters become exceedingly long (e.g., 7k and then 9k).

40. Writing a summary. There are several rules, as far as I’m concerned, in this area.

1. Don’t capitalize the whole summary.

2. Don’t write “I suck at summaries, read the story!” or “Summary sucks, story doesn’t!” If you can’t write a summary, I’ll assume that you can’t write period.

3. Treat the summary like it’s part of your story. I expect proper punctuation, grammar, etc. If your summary says: harry n draoc fall luvvv! Lulz! I will assume your spirit has possessed a laptop while you’re in a coma.

4. Don’t beg for reviews in your summary. That is beyond pathetic.

5. Don’t brag in your summary. OMG! 1,000 reviews! Like we can’t tell. Because, obviously, we don’t possess eyes. You come across as a conceited ass when you do this. On the flip side, mentioning your fic won an award is totally acceptable in a summary.

6. For the love of whatever you believe in, cease and desist with the second grade rhetorical questions! Will they fall in love? Will they succeed? Blah, blah, blah.

7. A good summary will be to the point and interesting without the stupid questions mentioned above. Also, a good summary doesn’t have to be ten paragraphs long. It’s not always what you say, but how you say it.

Example of a Bad Summary:

Sorry I suck at summaries! Fic is about Harry and Hermione. They fall in love. Um, yeah, just read and review please!!

Example of a Good Summary:

Ron Weasley was Harry’s best friend, and always had been. Harry thought he’d be able to share everything with Ron, and then he found something he wanted all to himself—Hermione.

Please let me know if you think I've left something out and you'd like my opinion on it!

Disclaimer: Harry Potter belongs to JK Rowling. I'm merely using her characters as examples and make no money from this. (P.S. Always remember to include a disclaimer for all copyrighted materials.)


Originally posted by kamerreon HERE.

Edited to add: This post was copied with permission, in it's entirety, from another source and the opinions expressed here are not necessarily the opinions of the mods.

Please remember that hd_writers is dedicated to inspiration and writing support. Everything here is meant to serve as basic guidlines on writing fiction. Please feel free to take from it what you find useful!

Thank you!

Comments

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

Some of this is really good advice, but I don't agree with her list of suggested warnings at all. Many people, myself included, find listing 'slash' as a warning offensive. ;)

[vaysh]

What a detailed listing of the many, many things to look out for when writing fanfiction. Thank you for posting these.

I think it's important to be aware of all of these general rules but keep in mind that these are only just that, general rules, which can and should be broken for the sake of being able to tell a story better. ;)

Sexual preference, mention of sex, adult language, and alcohol/ drug use do not require mandatory warnings, imho. These are covered by the rating. In fests, I'd rather warn for infidelity and especially mpreg as people feel strongly about those issues.

[magicallioness.livejournal.com]

Thanks for posting this! There are some things I disagree with, but that's alright, so many peope, so many opinions. Overall this is some very useful advise, though. I bookmarked it for future reference.

[girlofavalon.livejournal.com]

Word. I was about to say the same in a new comment.

[starlitshore.livejournal.com]

I agree with several of these pieces of advice (I only read up to about #20, but I got the gist). However, I also agree with melusinahp: warning for slash is offensive. I can see why you would warn for slash in a het-based community or for het in a slash-based community, if only to avoid the wank that would ensue. That said, if you're warning for slash in a slash-based community when you've already listed "Harry/Draco" as one of the pairings? In fact, if you've listed a pairing, you really shouldn't have to warn for slash OR het AGAIN.

I also agree with vaysh11 that more serious things like mpreg and infidelity, as well as bestiality, rape, non(/dub)-con, suicide, etc should be warned for. In order to illustrate just how important it is to warn for these things, let me relate to you a story I once read back in the early 2000's:

Harry and Draco are in a relationship. Draco is in a wheelchair. Harry's friends are concerned about their relationship and Harry deliberately cuts them off for it. Harry and Draco go on dates to places like Muggle movie theatres. Harry and Draco have sex several times, with Harry on top.

It's all sweet and sad, and a vaguely unsettling story because Harry's obviously in over his head and Draco is literally his whole world. At the end, it is revealed that Draco is actually dead and Harry has been using spells to preserve his corpse.

This author DID NOT warn for NECROPHILIA. I felt sick to my stomach and have NEVER forgotten this.

WARNINGS ARE IMPORTANT. *flails*

[scarletladyy.livejournal.com]

Oh my god, finding that out after reading such a short piece about it traumatised me, so I have so much sympathy for the fact you read the whole thing and discovered that :O

[starlitshore.livejournal.com]

Sorry if I traumatised you. I looked back and was like "is warning someone that it's a story about why warnings are important enough of a warning?" lol

And thank you for your sympathies! Yes! It was pretty horrific. :(

[thisgirl-is.livejournal.com]

I was going to say that, as well.

[diorcrystal.livejournal.com]

Thank you for posting this! It's very helpful. I think I agree with... all of the points listed XD

[scarletladyy.livejournal.com]

It was a slight exaggeration, no worries ;)

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

It bears repeating: if you warn for slash or femslash, it makes you look like a homophobic asshole (it doesn't mean you are one, but it sure as hell makes you look like one).

Here is why: a warning label implies that there is something objectionable to follow. Something commonly objectionable, something people reasonably might find upsetting, disgusting, or inappropriate. It is offensive to suggest that it is reasonable to find homosexuality upsetting, disgusting, or inappropriate.

Given the history of abuse and violence against LGBT people throughout human history, not to mention the criminalisation of homosexuality that is still widespread, it is offensive and insensitive to suggest that homosexuality is objectionable, upsetting, disgusting, or inappropriate on the same level as bestiality, rape, abuse, suicide, etc.

Comparing such warnings to ~warning for het~ in slash spaces is not cute and misses the point of why one is offensive whereas the other is simply annoying (because heterosexual people do not, in fact, face oppression and ridicule for being heterosexual).

Also, did you know it's rude to lift other people's words without permission? If someone already wrote something, link to it, don't reproduce it without asking.

[kitty_fic]

you left before i could tell you! I love this comment!

[kitty_fic]

same!

[starlitshore.livejournal.com]

:D That's cool!

[scarletscarlet.livejournal.com]

Really not thrilled to see slash and femslash as the first two items in a list of warnings. I see people warning for things like "m/m sexual situations" and the obvious inference is that they think there's something inherently wrong about homosexuality. You know, or it wouldn't be in the warnings section.

Frankly, I'd prefer if we all quit with "warnings" and went with "content", which is a neutral term, but that's another subject entirely.

Also, be aware that with copy-pasting something, you'll lose code - in s36 the italics are gone from the example.

While there is lots of useful information in it, it's a pretty proscriptive list; there are more than a couple of things in there that could be argued for as stylistic choice rather than an absolute no, and some that will be fine in small quantities depending on the surrounding text.

Could use a section on "to lay" vs "to lie", which may be the most common grammatical error in fic.

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you that warnings for certain things are important, but I also strongly believe that in cases such as this specific story (if it's the one I assume you mean) it's the writer's choice as to how they will warn. The surprise ending in this case is the entire point of the story. If the writer had warned for character death or necrophilia, the story would have been pointless. I can understand that that kind of surprise could be distressing, but I also firmly believe that writers have the right to write dark and shocking stories and the right to leave them unspoiled.

Most of the time now a days, people use the white out option so you can choose to read spoilerish warnings or not. What I do when I don't want to give the ending away is simply warn for dark subject matter. And looking now, the writer says, "I'm just going to warn you...THERE ARE NO WARNINGS. And once you finish reading, you'll realise the significance of that consider yourself officially warned even when you...well...haven't been..."

So, really she did warn. I can't see what else she could have done without ruining the story. Or maybe you are thinking of a different fic?

[starlitshore.livejournal.com]

I don't even remember the name of the fic or the writer. The details I listed are the only things I remember at all. I read that story when I was still in high school, which is quite a few years ago now.

I agree with you that warning for certain things ruins the surprise, and that sometimes we go a bit far with our warnings. Warning for "dark subject matter" or whiting-out warnings works for me.

And if it turns out that I remembered wrong and the author of the story I'm thinking of DID warn the way you said, then I redact my statement, and should probably go back and scold my teenage self for not seeing it/ignoring it.

[kitty_fic]

Yes, I am aware of the etiquette. I would like to point out that it was indeed copied with permission - as kamerreon has left LJ. Before she left we were given her blessing to post it here for those who might find it useful.

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

Oh, okay, thanks for clarifying that! I had seen that the OP deleted her journal and thought that had to do with you reposting this, as I am pretty sure I'm not the only LGBT person who's blindingly pissed off at her smug implication that gay sex is just like rape, incest, and bestiality.

[kitty_fic]

I'm glad you found it useful! ^_^

[starlitshore.livejournal.com]

I just want to add that I totally agree with the section about summaries. I'm picky about SPaG, yes, and I don't think that makes me a bad person. If the author has written "summery", I won't read it. If I see spelling mistakes, all capitals, or "first fic, please be nice!" or "absolutely no flames!" I tend to go :\

[scarletscarlet.livejournal.com]

Extra bonus comment:

I wonder if it might not be a handy exercise to assemble a how-to kind of post based on user submissions? Rather than this, which is problematic in a few sections and missing some others, but also contains that impossible-to-get-past warnings part.

I really do not think the disclaimer deals adequately with that.

[kitty_fic]

This was never meant to be the 'go to post' for these things. It was simply one person's take on the topic of writing. Just like all the other links and websites, etc that we have posted in the comm.

Anyone is perfectly welcome to post their own guide if they would like. This is no different than any other member posting a link or article that they found helpful

I simply posted here because I knew that kamerreon was leaving LJ and I do believe it has some helpful information contained within it. It shouldn't be viewed as anything more than one article on the subject of writing. It's certainly not hd_writers official guide.

I don't know what else to do or say beyond that.

[slumber.livejournal.com]

Not gonna lie... I actually want to read this fic. Could you PM me with details if you still remember it? (Thanks!)

[starlitshore.livejournal.com]

Hi, F! (You probably don't recognise me -- I used to be "sexts".)

I don't know the original writer of these guidelines, but I'm really hoping that her listing lesbian and gay relationships under her 'warnings' section is more of a subconscious, heteronormative comment (which is obviously not good either) than a deliberate implication that those relationships rank on the same level as rape, incest, and bestiality.

Fingers crossed?

[scarletscarlet.livejournal.com]

Personally, I would be very happy if the top three warnings were edited from the post. I do not think I would be the only one. It wouldn't affect the useful sections of the guide, would remove the controversial part, and would stop perpetuating something which, well, hurts people.

Whether you personally agree with it or not, reposting it looks like acceptance of the content and promotion of this approach as a guide (and yes, as with anything that is promoted in any comm). Not everyone is going to scroll all the way to the bottom and see that 7/10 new comments complained about that part, and it is so near the start of the article that it has implied significance and high visibility.

[kitty_fic]

I'm sorry to say that I do not feel it my place to edit someone else's content. If someone would like to contact Kamerreon and discuss it with her and she says to remove it then I will gladly do so. I am truly sorry if there have been hurt feelings regarding this - it was not my intention. Again, please remember that this is not my argument to fight. It's not my words. If it were, I would gladly edit the post.


My only other suggestion I have to offer is that I delete the entire post. But there are potential problems with that as well.

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

Hi :)

I actually don't see casual homophobia (an inevitable result of unexamined subconscious heteronormativity) as any different from explicit homophobia because in the end they are equally harmful (to society). My issue is not with the OP's character; I'm sure she's a perfectly delightful person and totally didn't mean it like that. But that doesn't change the fact that when words are arranged as "warning: m/m sex, incest, bestiality, necro", it reinforces the idea that m/m sex is somehow especially objectionable -- which is exactly the driving argument behind most homophobic rhetoric. That's bad no matter what the OP meant.

I realise fandom is not a safe space, and considering how long I've been around I really should know better than to be dismayed, but I guess I can't help it. :|

[starlitshore.livejournal.com]

I 100% agree. I'm just hoping that she did it because of an extremely unfortunate, objectionable ideology that's been fed to her since birth rather than malicious intent. You're right: there are very few safe places in the world, and it's pretty much inevitable that we're going to run into upsetting stuff in fandom. I really wish it wasn't that way, but I really don't know what we could do to prevent it. :\

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

LOL! I'm curious too, actually, just to see how the author pulled it off.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

This seems like it was aimed at writers on FFN. I so rarely see anyone on LJ making many of these mistakes. No offense to anyone who posts over there, but yanno? Some good points here, some that are matters of style, and others...

I have to agree with everyone else who's pointed out how offensive it is to suggest that one should "warn" for slash alongside actual triggery or disturbing content. :-P

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Actually, I think this is starting some good conversations. The original writer isn't here to get pissed off, so what's the harm in us critiquing her ideas? Maybe you could put an edit on that says the comm doesn't endorse this info, but is only offering it up for discussion.

[kitty_fic]

I did put that warning up there. . .

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

*is apparently blind*

[scarletscarlet.livejournal.com]

I do hope you don't delete the post, because there is good information in the majority of the post and I genuinely think these kinds of discussions, while uncomfortable for everyone, are valuable.

Do you have any kind of contact detail for Kamerreon? With her journal deleted a PM or comment is not an option, but I would be quite happy to drop her a line (as long as you can check if she's ok with her contact being given out) and ask if she minds if those problematic warnings are removed, since I don't believe for a moment that her intent was negative in including them.

I am holding out hope for the edit. There is a degree of responsibility for anyone who re-posts someone's words, because a re-post is an endorsement.

I'm just left thinking that, well, this is a Harry/Draco community, so in the context of a fan comm for a queer relationship it strikes a discordant note to have anything that detracts from fandom being a safe space for queer fen, no matter how sweet the intention.

[ineffably-roma.livejournal.com]

Oh my! I remember reading that very early in my fandom days. *did not like*

[slumber.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the comment! melusinahp has PMed it my way. :)

[thisgirl-is.livejournal.com]

OMG, this. Or people who say, "This isn't very good" in their notes. OK, I will take your word for it! Bye!

[starlitshore.livejournal.com]

LOL right?! I mean, what possesses you to tell people that what you've created isn't any good if what you want is for people to look at it? If it isn't any good, don't post it!

[starlitshore.livejournal.com]

lol ♥ It was added after the fact.

[starlitshore.livejournal.com]

I know, yeah. *nod* But it really depends on what communities you frequent. I've seen several people make these mistakes. I would also add "giant neon text" to the list of "don't do's".

Considering the agreement seems to be unanimous, we should just pass a new "fandom bylaw" (as I've seen it being called here and there) that says you DON'T warn for the type of relationship in the fic. If the reader didn't pay attention to the pairings, too bad!

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Too bad there seems to be such a lack of common sense in fandom at large. Within individual communities it's so nice and cozy, and I will be the first to admit I'm completely spoiled by the H/D community on LJ. I have no desire to play anywhere else! :-D

[starlitshore.livejournal.com]

H/D is by far the comfiest, kindest community I've been a part of! I'm very glad to be back. And I'm settling in to stay. If you get some free time, you should join us in the chatzy rooms. Everyone really lovely, and they really help with getting stuff done!

[lonely-parasol.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I read a story that began cute and fluffy, and then ended with a strangled, dead Harry! *shivers* no warnings...'nope, none at all,' it said >.< WARN FOR NECRO AND NON CON!! It's veeeeeerrrrrryyyy important imho.

[lonely-parasol.livejournal.com]

Heh, since I love reading dark fcs anyway I admit to being curious...this is tickling something in my brain ;) Could someone PM me the details, maybe?

[starlitshore.livejournal.com]

Or at least a warning such as: "If you are likely to be bothered by explicit violence or things that could be considered "gross", do not proceed."