Characterization
May. 13th, 2011 02:25 pmMore recently, I'm starting to wonder if that's one of the reasons I'm having difficulty with characterization. I mean, reading the books would allow me to know the characters more intimately and maybe then, I'd have a more solid/realistic image of who they are? (I do think it's strange that I haven't read the books and write fanfiction, but that's a story for another post.) It's been a little less that a year now since I took a dive into writing fanfiction and I thought that characterization was something that would come with experience. You know, the more I write, the better I would get to know the characters but that's only happened to some extent. Sometimes they still feel like strangers to me and even when I finally work something out, Harry and Draco feel like cut and paste characters. Like there's nothing to them but the fact that one is a noble Gryffindor and the other a selfish Slytherin.
I don't mind reading or writing fanfiction where the characters are a bit OOC--you know, realistically. (That's a bit of an oxymoron, but I hope it still makes some sort of sense.) But I think it's important to know the characters well enough to be able to tell their story like they would.
I WANT THEM TO BE REAL!!!
So, the million dollar question: does anyone have advice on characterization and character development? Showing vs. telling?
Much thanks. =]
Edit: I've seen the Harry Potter movies more times than I dare to count and I've been reading Harry Potter fanfiction for five plus years. For some reason, I thought that was a good enough background =/. After reading the books, is there anything I should know about characterization? Any tips? Not reading the books is a major fault, I admit, but are there rules and techniques?
READING.
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Date: 2011-05-13 07:35 pm (UTC)Read. The. Books. Sorry, but that's all I've got. And I'm a bit O_o right now.
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Date: 2011-05-13 07:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 07:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 08:02 pm (UTC)Advice taken. I just needed to hear someone say it.
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Date: 2011-05-13 08:04 pm (UTC)Thank you for the advice.
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Date: 2011-05-13 08:12 pm (UTC)I always liked reading, but back then I was into mysteries and romances and Harry Potter didn't seem to focus on any of those so I just settled for watching the movies instead. And by the time I wanted to read the books, I was intimidated by how big they were and I had other books I wanted to read too! My book list was ever-growing [and still is. =p]
I suppose I just never got around to it. And since I've seen the movies, I thought it would be weird to then read the book. It's different when you read the book first.
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Date: 2011-05-13 08:13 pm (UTC)If you take the time to read the books and learn about the history that Harry and Draco share, you'll understand their fanon romance so much better, and I guarantee your characterization will improve.
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Date: 2011-05-13 08:16 pm (UTC)The only series I've ever read were these alphabet mysteries in elementary school and Twilight because I read them as they came out.
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Date: 2011-05-13 08:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 08:19 pm (UTC)Absolutely. Everybody has to find their own Harry and their own Draco. BUT within the limits of what the books tell us about them. I actually thought about what writing tips for characterisation I can come up with, and one that I've been told over and over again is: read! A good writer is almost always a good reader. ♥
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Date: 2011-05-13 08:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 08:20 pm (UTC)That. *nods*
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Date: 2011-05-13 08:22 pm (UTC)Generic was the word I was looking for. I do feel that in some of my works, the characters were like cutting and pasting a mold of a stereotypical Harry or Draco. They didn't stand out as the Harry and Draco that we know and love. I agree that getting to know the characters is important, and based on the other comments that I've received, my next priority as someone who wants to write fanfiction should be to read the books.
Thank you for you advice.
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Date: 2011-05-13 08:27 pm (UTC)Okay! I'll read the books!
It's funny because a friend of mine told me the other day that she wouldn't laugh at my Harry Potter jokes anymore because I told her I hadn't read the books. So cruel...
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Date: 2011-05-13 08:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 08:27 pm (UTC)If you want to write book-canon then do exactly the same thing. Read the books. Then go over every scene that has information about the characters that you might need for your story.
Or give up and go and write original fiction.
It's much easier.
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Date: 2011-05-13 08:31 pm (UTC)=[
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Date: 2011-05-13 08:49 pm (UTC)The movies aren't good to go off either. I'm not saying the actors are bad or anything, but it's just not the same.
Plus you miss out on so many of the little nuances from only watching the movies and not reading the books.
If I were you, I'd say definitely stop writing fiction for the moment, and read the books. Then you can write to your heart's content. You'll find most Harry Potter writers have read the books at least twice.
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Date: 2011-05-13 09:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 11:33 pm (UTC)DO IT NOW!
Lol. Honestly compared to the movies the books would help you more with characterization, although to be honest I have almost had canon destroyed in my memory by fanfiction. I will have to go back and read the books soon.
OOC is fine in my opinion and sometimes I search it out because I get tired of the Gryffindor v Slytherin crap. Which is even in the OOC fics. Honestly I think you could probably develop characterization by just watching the movies but, if you want canon, you'd be better off reading the books for a more in depth feel. Like, canon wise, Draco would never be good to Harry. He's not noble, he's a slimy putrid bastard and it's hard to find an actual Draco in fandom. Not that I don't like him a bit kind and boning Harry, but that's kind of the truth.
As far as writing I say just go with what feels right, only you can make your rules. Sit down, get inside their heads, and try to feel what you want to express. My favorite writers are the ones who get inside of Harry and Draco's heads and make them realistic people who I feel as if I've met. :)
*\o/* Rooting for your success hon!
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Date: 2011-05-13 11:36 pm (UTC)I need to re-read the books. I think the fandom has warped my initial perspectives of Harry and Draco. Gotta get back to the basics.
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Date: 2011-05-14 12:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-14 12:31 am (UTC)I've read the Twilight Series, and I also read Twilight fanfiction. Even with the not so complicated Twilight plot, I still get confused sometimes over what really happened and what didn't and things like that.
Thank you so much for your kind words and support!
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Date: 2011-05-14 12:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-14 12:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-14 12:59 am (UTC)But in order to truly know the characters, you definitely do need to read the books. Then you can form your own opinion on who these characters are to you and you will be able to separate fanon vs canon.
Read the books and then the boys definitely won't feel like strangers to you.
Really, the books are easy and fun reads. They may seem big but they go fast and if you already have a love of the movies and the characters, then they should hold your attention and you'll likely breeze right through them.
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Date: 2011-05-14 01:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-14 01:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-14 02:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-14 02:35 am (UTC)Haha, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think I like having fun, experimenting with who Harry and Draco are, but I also think it would make me a better writer to be able to have them in character also. Just like sometimes you want to read fanon and at other times, canon.
I now know I should read the books, but it's also reassuring to know that I can "form [my] own opinions" on who they are because everyone's Harry and Draco is a little different... But, of course, WITHIN what is canon. =p
Grazie!
Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-14 08:57 am (UTC)(Before I get flamed for this: up until a few months ago, I made my living as a ghost writer. I fixed other people's novels; oftentimes, I had to finish them, too. Now I'm taking time off to finish my own epic noir. I fully acknowledge that my experiences have created opinions that are not commonly shared in the world of HP fandom writing. Please take me with a grain of salt... and possibly a shot of tequila. I exist well outside the norm.)
In order to weave complex, human, identifiable characters, one must understand the levels of characterization, the Shrek-like "onion layers" that make people the complicated beings we are. Read some books that are character-driven rather than the action-driven HP series. Off the top of my head, I'd say anything by Terry Goodkind or Isaac Asimov should do the trick. You'll see the way these authors create texture in motives, actions, quandries and dilemmas that require very little "cannon-like" back story in order to connect with a character on a personal and intimate level.
Fleshing out a character has very little to do with the kind of details Rowling provided in the HP books--hair color, height, regional dialect (and while some of these things have been lost in the films, it's not as though there was a wealth of information to begin with!). These kinds of details rarely make us who we are. If you start thinking of the characters in terms of value systems, interpretation and bias, coping mechanisms and secret desires... then you're getting close to a deep and passionate characterization.
I am absolutely the odd man out, here. The cheese stands alone.
Cheers!
sordid
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-14 12:02 pm (UTC)"If you start thinking of the characters in terms of value systems, interpretation and bias, coping mechanisms and secret desires... then you're getting close to a deep and passionate characterization."
I agree completely. And all those things can be found in the major characters in the HP books. And if you're going to write Harry Potter fanfiction, you need to have read the books so you can understand the characters in all their layers and replicate that in your own writing.
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-14 07:50 pm (UTC)I'm not a Harry Potter fan and I'm not a Rowling fan: and you don't have to be either in order to be a good writer or to write good fanfiction. You don't have to replicate the original author's style, tone or characterization in order to write fanfiction--you just have to be a good writer with something to say (sorry, I'm steeped in the school of didactics). More than anything, you should figure out what point you want to get across and structure your plot and characters around that aim.
Read voraciously. Go ahead and read the HP books if you want to--I'm just saying that, as a student of writing, you shouldn't limit yourself to Rowling's brand of characterization because there are a multitude of other options. Find what works for you. Just remember, like Kitty said above, that you are entitled to your own interpretation of the characters (be they from the books, movies, or your own head). The joy of writing is that you don't have to follow Rowling's rules--or anyone else's.
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-14 08:33 pm (UTC)And this is a Harry/Draco com. It's a com specifically for people who want to write about HP characters. There are plenty of people in fandom who want to write OC's with Harry and Draco's names and pay no attention to what the characters are actually like in canon, but I personally find nothing interesting about that at all.
I'm in HP fandom because I want more Harry and more Draco and if someone hasn't even read the books or if she's just making it up as she goes along because she thinks she can do better than JKR, then they are just going to be wasting my time.
If you want to be a good writer, then yes, absolutely, read everything you can get your hands on. If you want to be a good Harry Potter fanfic writer, than you have to at the very least have read the books or you're just writing OC with canon names. Some people like that sort of thing. I don't at all.
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-14 11:39 pm (UTC)I do enjoy writing fanfiction, but I also know that sometimes my characters fall short of who I want to be and how I want to portray them. They seem to be lacking an essence that's part of us--an essence that makes us real, human, and relatable.
I just want to be able to write fanfiction where the characters are realistic and not one sided. We all know that Harry has a hero complex, but how does that affect him and everyone around him? How does he deal with it and how does his mind process those situations? I want to write characters that are wholesome and have life.
I think it's a good idea to read the books just because it's starting to feel wrong that I want to write about them, but don't really know them. It might not make it easier for me to characterize them when I write, but I think it might help. At least, I'll get to know what makes them tick.
On the other hand though, I understand what you're saying about reading other books that explore the complicated sides of human beings. Without that knowledge, I could replicate the Harry and the Draco that JKR created, but will they be anything but that? No.
But with both of these, I just might get somewhere. I can write Harry and Draco as real without changing who they are.
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-14 11:49 pm (UTC)But what about all the talk about having the characters canon? I've noticed that there a quite a number of writers out there that think it's absolute blasphemy when the characters don't act according to canon.
I don't think having them canon all the time is all that important, but at the same time, I understand the preference. They like JKR's Harry and Draco, and that's what they want to read, not two entirely different characters that only look like them, have the same names, and only seem somewhat similar...
What is the definition of fanfiction anyway? Shouldn't it be okay for the characters to be different?
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-14 11:56 pm (UTC)So it's a matter of preference then? It's not necessarily wrong if the characters aren't canon?
Also, I doubt anyone writes fanfiction because they think they can do better than JKR. We are fans of HER work, so we write our own versions of her fiction. Isn't that part of what fanfiction is?
If you want to be a good Harry Potter fanfic writer, than you have to at the very least have read the books or you're just writing OC with canon names. Some people like that sort of thing. I don't at all.
So, the characters have to be exactly as JKR had them for you to enjoy the story? You won't read anything that's not canon?
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-15 07:27 am (UTC)Wrong in what sense? There are no official fandom police. There used to be coms where people would spork bad-fic, but I think they've all died out. You won't be struck by lightning if you write fanon instead of canon. You won't be hounded out of fandom if you write unrecognisable characterisations. I don't think 'wrong' is the right word. There's nothing ethically wrong or even technically wrong about writing fanfic characters OOC. And you'll even find many people in fandom who don't give a damn.
So, yeah, preference. And I'm starting to wish people would warn for "not giving a damn about canon characterisations" in their headers so I wouldn't wasted my time starting to read their fics. As far as my personal preference goes, however, ignoring canon characterisation is ignoring the rules of the game. Part of the fun and challenge of writing fanfic is taking already created characters and someone else's world and re-writing them in different circumstances. I'm here because I love the characters and I love the world. If I hated them, I'd be elsewhere.
Person above blatantly said that she only writes HP fan fic because she thinks she can do better thank JKR. It's not the first time I've seen someone say that they write fic because they want to fix her mistakes.
"We are fans of HER work, so we write our own versions of her fiction." Yes. Exactly. And if you ignore the canon work then you are writing slightly derivative original fiction, not fan fiction.
The characters don't have to be exactly as JKR wrote them. Few people can accomplish that. I can try, but I know I'll never get it exactly right. I just want demonstration of a good effort. I don't want Harry killing, I don't want him telling Ron and Hermione to fuck off after the war, I don't want him without a sense of humour or fearful or weak. When I read him, I want to believe I'm reading the same Harry from the books as much as possible. And while I'll read well-written fanon fics now and then, canon is why I'm here. So if I start a fic and don't recognise the characters at all, yeah, I'll stop reading pretty quickly.
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-15 07:28 am (UTC)And if you read the books, you'll get answers to those questions.
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-15 07:27 pm (UTC)I think it's possible to keep every detail Rowling ever gave us and expand from there, flushing out the characters in the direction a fandom writer chooses. If you'd like a concrete example, there's my epic NC-17 project Conscience (http://dh-conscience.livejournal.com/profile/). Reading through to chapter 21 will give you a fair impression of what I mean by character-driven narrative and hidden didactic aims (there's also a rated R version on fanfiction.net because I'm not sure how old you are).
Whether you want the characters the same as the books or different is up to you as a writer! Some people will only read cannon-based fics. Some people prefer non-magical AU's (and I've read some great AU fics in my day because they were written by talented and engaging authors). Bottom line is that yes, it's okay for the characters to be different... bearing in mind that less-than-cannon characters may cost you some readers or get you a few flames.
Life is too short. F*ck the man. Write what you want to write and don't worry about other people's expectations. That's fanfiction.
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-15 08:03 pm (UTC)As far as making your characters realistic and more easily identified with as people... I think that's something that will come with time the more you write. I'd recommend finding a good beta reader, someone who can sit down with you over IM and ask the important questions, like "why does Harry say this huge paragraph instead of just blowing up and storming off in a rage?" or "wouldn't it be more realistic if Neville stuttered here?" Sometimes it helps to have an outside view of your scenes and characters. As we write, we get our heads further and further into the Pensive of our narrative. It can be helpful to enlist the aid of someone who is not buried quite so deep in the plot; often, they catch things as "out of character" that the writer may have missed. I believe there is a lj comm for HP betas just chomping at the bit. It may also happen that you make friends through postings like this or commenting on other people's fiction. I find that the best betas are people you can also call friends.
My last thought (I swear) relates to your questions about Harry's White Knight Complex. I think it's important to ask these sorts of questions--even if they have been answered in the books. There can be more than one answer. Sometimes the best fanfiction sheds light on existing events in cannon, giving a new and more personal perspective on past events. The more you ask these questions, the richer your writing will become. Each question is something to explore within the character's mind. I think the best writers are the ones who are always asking questions, always seeking a new and deeper answer, never assuming that what they've been given is the whole and complete story.
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-15 10:18 pm (UTC)Some writers might not even be aware because they don't have a beta. Even then, not all beta's focus on characterization, but instead, the flow of the story, the plot elements, the grammar, et cetera.
Sordid didn't say she(?) can do it better. Sordid didn't say she was trying to fix JKR's mistakes. What sordid said was that she wants to fill in what she feels are holes in the story. Even with amazingly written books as the Harry Potter series, there's always the chance that something might need more explanation-- some concepts that the reader questions because there wasn't enough information. I don't think that's an insult to JKR, she's only human after all.
If you've ever finished a book and still had some questions after wards, or were skeptical about something that was written, I think that is how sordid feels. She wants to answer the questions, make sense of what doesn't make sense. She's not claiming to do it better.
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-15 10:29 pm (UTC)Life is too short. F*ck the man. Write what you want to write and don't worry about other people's expectations. That's fanfiction.
That's what I've heard before. But I just wanted to be sure it wasn't an insult to the HP fandom when I wrote out of canon. I suppose it really is all a matter of preference, but I would like be able to write canon and fanon. Some stories might call for the former, others, the latter. I enjoy writing fanon as is, but I think canon would be good experience too.
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-16 06:45 am (UTC)Everyone needs a beta. And good betas do focus on characterisation.
I agree that part of the fun of fanfiction is filling in gaps or elaborating on areas that we wish were more fleshed-out. But you have to have a solid understanding of the world and characters before you can do that. And I don't relate to wanting to play in the sandbox of a writer whose work I don't enjoy at all.
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-05-17 02:02 am (UTC)When I read about magic, I want it visceral and vivid. That's what I do with my HP fiction. That's another place where Rowling left me to fall flat on my face. Again, that's just me.
And wouldn't you be embarrassed if I turned out to be a man?
^_^
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Date: 2011-05-19 02:38 am (UTC)That's my opinion, anyway. I hope you enjoy reading and discover a wealth of ideas from it.
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Date: 2011-05-21 04:01 am (UTC)It's weird because I've watched all the movies AND read fanfiction for years AND I like writing fanfiction too, so I feel like I'm enjoying it from a really strange perspective that I can't even begin to explain. But I'm enjoying it though.
Thanks for the insight and encouragement. =]
Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-07-19 08:07 pm (UTC)Re: Here We Go....
Date: 2011-07-24 02:32 am (UTC)