Plagiarism, credit etc.

[wantsunicorns.livejournal.com]

I've asked if it's okay to post this and got the okay, so here goes:

I know we all get inspired by the things we read or watch or listen to, be it books, films or songs. How do you deal with that, if you get inspired by other people's fic?

As an author:

• Do you think it's alright if other people reuse an idea you had?
  (like a spell, a gadget, a magical ability, magical theory etc.)
• Do you think it's necessary to be credited in the author's notes, if they used your idea?
  (as in, the part where "..." got inspired by "so and so")
• Would you like to be asked, before someone uses something of yours?
  (like, send a pm, or email asking whether it's alright, e.g. detailing what want to use it for)

What are your thoughts on this?

I personally am a bit undecided. I would love it, if people asked me permission, simply because I think it would be lovely to know that someone else got inspired by something I created. I would however not hold people to this. What I think would be common curtesy though would be to credit the creator of a work in the author's notes with something like "the idea for "..." comes from "author's name"" or something similar, if one was so inclined one could also link to the fic the idea was inspired/taken from.

I'm fairly new to stuff like this, so I don't know what's considered the right approach to this, so I figured I might as well ask my go-to-people in such matters, i.e. ALL OF YOU BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE! ♥

PS: I'm sorry mods, I don't know how to tag this.

ETA: Thank you so much for everyone who has shared their opinion on this with me. I've definitely received some food for thought. ♥

Comments

[vaysh]

To me, it depends on how specific the idea is.
If I posted about this spell I came up with for a story, complete with a name and exact description what the spell is doing, and someone used this exact spell in a story without asking me - I'd be a bit miffed.
But if I posted about how one day I would want to write a Bill/Blaise fic with dragons, and then someone wrote such a story - that to me is perfectly okay.

I guess the best rule of thumb is: if in doubt ask.

[winterstorrm.livejournal.com]

It's not always easy to know if the magical theory etc was created by that person or is just absorbed into fanon or whatever is it?

I just read 'The Boy Who Lived Twice' and have an urge to write Unspeakable fic now, but the Unspeakable practice etc in that fic was all lettered's I think, even though it will forever be how it should be in my head, so I couldn't use that without asking first and I wouldn't.

It's very complicated.

[skriftlig.livejournal.com]

This is such an interesting point. Thanks for raising it!

I basically agree with what you wrote in your post. I wouldn't be too upset if someone took something from a fic of mine without asking (I've never asked JKR) but I would expect a little comment in their author's notes saying where it came from.

Of course, it's possible to take someone else's ideas without realising, which is tricky. So I think we have to use our common sense to a certain extent - we're obviously not going to go around crediting people for Draco being a potions master or Snape being in portrait form or any other very prevalent ideas, but I do think we should ackowledge other people's specific ideas/creations.

[naturegirlrocks.livejournal.com]

Usually, if I find something good in a fic I write in the comment 'I might use this', (more than often it is just a word or an expression). Later on I have no idea where or when it came from, but at least the author knows that s/he is quoted somewhere.
I would like at least that if it were me who was being the source of inspiration.
Most often I get a reply telling me that it's ok to use, and that they like that I like it. I haven't gotten a 'no' yet.

When it comes to music, movies and 'real' fiction I always say what it is, even link to it if possible.

But then again I have not seen if I have been 'copied' anywhere. Then I guess it would depend on the context.

[tryslora]

I have a profile on AO3 where I say that I'd love if it folks remixed my stories or whatever, and all I ask is that they let me know so I can see the finished products. People do get inspired, and I know I'd be upset if I saw something I did lifted wholesale. But what I hope is that the new work transforms the idea. If it isn't a transformative work, then it falls under plagiarism. But we're all fic writers, and what we do is transform, right?

If I see something that inspires me, I let the writer know as soon as I'm making my notes for what I want to write, and I ask if they'd mind. For example, I read a fic in an entirely different fandom that was a crossover piece. As soon as I read it, I knew I needed to write my own fusion of that crossover world with HP (it's a WiP and I swear I am going to finish it this summer if I have to make a fest to make myself do it). So I dropped a note to the original author, and was very pleased that it made them smile and they were all for the idea. I'd hope someone did the same for me.

On the other hand, there are those instances where you get ideas independently, then feel awkward, like writing a fic framed around an event, and when you go to post it, realizing there's another fic, same pairing, framed around the same sort of event, and then you worry that you've inadvertently hive-minded and copied the idea. Or that may just be me feeling weird about such things.

I think, in the end, it depends on what piece you want to take into your own work. Like vaysh11 says, how specific is the idea? In any case, though, I think notification isn't just polite, but might make the original author smile. After all, don't we all like to know that we're inspiring to others?

[deirdre-aithne.livejournal.com]

I think it depends a lot of what the idea is. Rewriting a whole fic without permission, bad idea, obviously. But if you read a fic and you see a spell, for one (as it's been stated by others before me already) you don't always know if the spell is canon, something a part of fanon, or that author's specific creation. There's also the problem that you read a fic, and it wasn't anything special for you, you didn't save the link, and you never think of it again, except one little spell or one theory from the fic stuck in your brain. And a year later, you're sitting down to write a fic and it comes back into your head, but without that "I think I saw this in a fic once" note attached, so you have to assume it is your own idea.

Then there's the fact that sometimes two people have the same idea. Sometimes fifteen people have the same idea. I have fic notes that I've jotted down over a year ago and have seen fics pop up since I wrote them down that fic my notes almost perfectly, and they're notes I've never discussed with anyone else. Spells, magical theory, etc. can work the same way. "I need a spell that lets me do 'x'." Well, if someone else writing a fic needs the same spell and you both decide that 'y' makes an appropriate name for the spell and/or translate the same word(s) for the name into Latin, odds are good two people come up with the same idea organically. So if person A posts their fic, which person B never reads, and a year later, person B posts theirs, how does anyone else know whether B took the idea from A or had it themselves? Well, they don't. But I'd lay odds someone will read both A and B's fics and decide B must have stolen it without credit.

If you know where you got something from, yeah, I think it's common courtesy to credit. If you don't, then what can you do? I know there's a bit of a possessive thing with fandom, but honestly? We don't own any of this. We are playing in someone else's sandbox, so do we really have a right to complain if someone else wants to play in ours? If someone comes in and nabs your entire fic and puts their name on it, yeah, I can understand being pissed, because that's flat out stealing your hard work. But when it comes to magical theory, spells, gadgets, and anything else, I think it's sort of fair game. Let's face it, pretty much everyone is inspired for new ideas by what they read, watch, listen to, etc. Just about anything we can think of has probably been done before, and what hasn't, well, it was probably inspired by something else that has.

[undrsomestairs.livejournal.com]

You don't have to credit whoever's idea it was to first write veela fic or mpreg fic, you don't have to credit whoever's idea it was to first write Harry Potter fanfiction, J.K. didn't have to credit whoever's idea it was to write lore about wizards - and isn't there a saying about how every basic story idea has already been written somewhere? Specific things I see crediting for, like spells or potions if they're really creative and developed. For example, I made up a spell that checks for pregnancy and called it Gravidus, because gravida is latin for pregnant. If I saw that somewhere else I wouldn't for a second think of it as plagiarism, because it's really obvious and easy to come up with. Good chance it had been done before me, even. If someone really went out of their way to construct this intricate spell or potion that played into their plot, though, I'm sure they'd appreciate getting credit for it. Eventually, though, if it was popular enough, it would probably just become a part of fanon and down the line people wouldn't even know who to credit anyway.

Complicated question. Obviously don't full-on steal someone else's work or read a story and then write one that totally mirrors it with just the wording switched around a bit, but other than that I'd say give credit when we can, and not get too worked up about little things.

[hpfangirl71.livejournal.com]

I think it depends on how original the idea is... Like I know enchanted_jae has her fifi stories and it would be rude of someone to write that type of a story without her permission and crediting her idea because she's written many many in that story arc and its pretty much hers as much as Draco and Harry are JK's.

With spells and names and such... I think maybe people should at least credit in some way... its not different from crediting and artist or a singer if your inspired by their works... It just takes common sense. I would actually be flattered if someone liked my story so much that they wanted to write something similiar or even wanted to continue the story because I hadnt had the time to do so... but yeah I might want credit for the original idea or the inspiration.

Sometimes tho I think authours dont plagiarize on purpose either... you read so much stuff that canon and fanon sort of blur or you dont realize that an idea you got was from something you read or you may have a similiar idea and not realize that its been written.

I know there are many similiar veela fics, rentboy fics, MPreg fics, and marriage law fics... I mean theres only so many ways you can do the general premise to those sorts of stories, its the details that make it more an authours original idea... I think when in doubt, credit to be safe... It certainly can't hurt any and it just might save you a bunch of drama. I think we all take inspiration from things we read... so its inevitable that we might write something somebody else has done but in our own unique way!! <3

[imera.livejournal.com]

I agree with most, which is a good thing because it means most of us think alike.

Deciding what to credit is a fairly difficult thing to do right.

If something you created is as simple as using the Latin word for it I think it will be stupid to go around and accusing everyone of stealing. It's only when you have spent a lot of thought and made the potion/spell/etc complicated that it's mostly yours.

I know it sounds stupid to say that it's ours when we use the works of jkr, but some things in her world are not original. Like wands, I have read fantasy before HP where a wizard uses wands; does that mean she stole the idea? And what about brooms? Or castles? She did however make a bunch of spells, potions and such to go along with the whole wizard world, so that is hers. If someone writes a fantasy book today where they have wizards that uses wands and spells that are Latin I would not go as far as to say they are stealing jkr.

If you read a story, let’s say a mpreg, vela, forced marriage, etc, and want to write one yourself because it inspired you to write about that theme you can drop a note to the original author and tell them you were inspired to write your own. In order to do this you need to make your own story. If you use the same ideas as they did you have to credit, because that is using their ideas. Ask if you can, and hope it’s an author that reads their emails or are still active.

It’s difficult to decide what is original, maybe the author you are being inspired by copied the idea from somewhere else, and he/she did not credit that person. But it’s important that we do the right thing and set an example to the new generation that will eventually join our world.

[niekebieke.livejournal.com]

Hey,

I know this question was posted eons ago, but it intrigued me and made me really want to put in my 2 pence worth. Usually I’m more of a lurker, so I did not want to deny this sudden urge.

I don’t write fanfiction, but I read a ton of fanfic and absolutely adore the HP fandom – it was my first fandom love!! I’m also an English Lit and Linguistics major and we did this course on copyright in my first year and I just remember being thoroughly confused most of the time, since there where so many “buts” and “ors” everywhere. I passed the course and will never ever bother again with all the complicated details.

First to answer your question about whether one should just put a disclaimer or should ask permission?

I think in general you should just put a remark in your Author Notes and if you can I would link back to the other person work. While I think asking or informing the original author is the polite and nice thing to do, I think having a rule that says one has to ask permission is a bit conceited. Why should a fanwriter be allowed to deny anyone the right to play and further develop on her/his original ideas?

I look at it this way, every fandom is based on original work. Take HP; JK Rowling has on numerous occasions said that while she sees the fanfics and fanarts out there as ultimate fan appreciation, she is not too happy about the NC-17 – be it het or slash – stuff. Because in her eyes the HP books are children books and the fanfic/art should remain within that context. So do fanfic writers ask Rowling for permission to take her very recognisable characters and universe and transform it into a threesome BDSM orgy fic? No they don’t, but they do disclaim that anything anybody might recognise is Rowling’s creation and that they are just playing around with her creations.

So I think the same rule should apply to Fan Writers/Artists’ original creations. You should definitely disclaim and maybe link to the original if you can. Informing them would be a nice gesture, but it should be optional and not an obligation.
That said, I don’t think a lot of people would say no. But as heartofoshun and some others pointed out there are some slightly territorial fan creators out there who feel it is their godgiven right to decide whether or not anyone can use their creations. Which is just ludicrous since they are also actually using the original work without permission [and in some other fandoms against the explicit plea from the original author] and only disclaiming.

[niekebieke.livejournal.com]

hey,

Your question is literally not leaving me alone … I was just looking at some art on DA and there an artist put underneath all her posts:

PLEASE DO NOT REPOST ANYWHERE!!! I do NOT allow the use of my art in videos, slideshows and the likes, or on other sites without my explicit permission.

And I had to concede that she had a point. I still stand by my statement that since a fanfic/artist by definition is also inspired by and playing with someone else’s ideas without explicitly asking permission from the original author/creator, it would be quite conceited of said fanfic creator to then demand an obligatory request asking for permission when someone else is inspired by their original idea.

I think the keywords are INSPIRED and IDEA. When you are inspired by an idea you take the idea and do your own thing with it. In case of being inspired by fanart it could lead to you writing a fic or drawing something original based on the other persons work. Thus you would definitey need to disclaim the source of your inspiration, but would not have to necessarily ask for permission. This is why mostly fanfic writers and fanartists are happy when some makes an art/fic based on their work and tell everyone about it, and while I can’t be certain it does not seem that most of those inspired ask for permission. Although most people do seem to tell the original creator afterwards.

But INSPIRED does not mean taking her actual artwork and then making it into icons for example or changing the colours. If, in these situations, you did not ask for permission, then you are most definitely a plagiarists. In fanfic the equivalent would be not just letting her idea inspire you, but actually lifting the words – be it literally or in more vague terms – from her fic and planting it in your own. If you actually want to use her literal words and you have asked for permission and it was granted, then all is hunky-dory.

Again I think common sense should prevail on both sides and fandom will continue to be the, mostly, happy place it is.

[crazyparakiss.livejournal.com]

Do you think it's alright if other people reuse an idea you had?
(like a spell, a gadget, a magical ability, magical theory etc.)

Totally because chances are they might do it better and I like to see some of my hair-brain ideas expanded on. (Not that I've had an "original" in terms of magical theory, plot, etc.)

Do you think it's necessary to be credited in the author's notes, if they used your idea?
(as in, the part where "..." got inspired by "so and so")

Not always necessary, but it'd be cool as nuggets if they did AND then linked me so I could go read it and squee that I inspired someone!

Would you like to be asked, before someone uses something of yours?
(like, send a pm, or email asking whether it's alright, e.g. detailing what want to use it for)

If they borrowed a line WORD FOR WORD and it was MINE and not a quote/lyrics/etc then YES I would like to be asked. But if it's an idea and not word for word what I wrote then not really. I like seeing the way people spin things. I am a lover of the fanfiction so I want to see all of it done in a number of ways. Like cliche fic. I live for cliche fic if we all had to credit the person who inspired our Veela Mate Fics then the author's note is liable to be longer than the piece of fanfic ;)

But I agree with Vaysh if it very specific and very, very unique then perhaps a crediting would be nice. As I've never been in this situation I can't guarantee that I'd be indifferent if I got "jacked" an idea. But as I'm usually pretty easy going I am almost certain I wouldn't be too pissed off, but you never know. I say to avoid pissing off the fangirl army one should probably ask if the idea isn't a fandom general i.e. Veela Mates.